Author Topic: What is the best magnum round? (Read 2389 times)

flyingcircusboy · « **on:** February 06, 2003, 02:51:43 PM »

I am currently looking for a magnum rifle for all around shooting of big stuff. I understand that I truly probably don't need a large bore for most NA game but I want one. I have narrowed it down to the .300 win mag, .300 ultra mag, .300 weatherby mag and the .338 win mag. Which one has the best overall characteristics as far as trajectory, muzzle velocity and "knockdown power" (energy at various ranges)? I am looking at them in Rem 700 and Win 70 models. Thank you.

acearch72 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2003, 02:55:18 PM »

take a look at this

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_rifles.htm

flyingcircusboy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2003, 03:18:25 PM »

thanks but I don't understand what i am looking at. I found reloading stats for their .338 but their rifles are way out of my price range.

acearch72 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2003, 04:01:06 PM »

can't beat this price. I've got one and love it.

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_savage.htm

flyingcircusboy · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2003, 04:19:10 PM »

You're right that is an incredible deal. The problem I would have is the ammo. It seems like they have created their own round, how is price and availability of the ammunition?

acearch72 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2003, 04:37:32 PM »

Readily avaliable but expensive.

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_sacart.htm

call them with a credit card and they ship to you 2 day delivery. Or buy the reloading stuff if you have time.

flyingcircusboy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2003, 04:44:33 PM »

I kind of figured they would have a corner on the ammo market. I want someting that I don't have to reload or spend inordinate amounts of money on. But thanks for the tip.

Idaho Shooter · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2003, 05:37:18 PM »

Flyingcircusboy,
You asked "Which one has the best overall characteristics as far as trajectory, muzzle velocity and "knockdown power"
The 338 has the most knock down power, by virtue of much heavier bullet weights and greater frontal area of the bullets. But the 300 RUM has the higher muzzle velocity and the flatter trajectory.
My reccomendation for a rifle for the serious elk hunter would be the 338, my vote goes to the 300 Win or possibly the 300 WSM for a regular deer hunter who would like to be ready for an occasional oportunity to hunt larger game.
While the larger magnums do give higher performance levels, their larger case capacities require much larger doses of powder and subject the shooter to much greater recoil force.
Many magazine articles have been written about the law of diminishing returns, and many more pages devoted to explanations of felt recoil. Most experts find the average shooter can not learn to be comfortable with more recoil than that which is produced by the 30-06. I personally find that I can only comfortably fire twenty to thirty rounds from a 300 Win Mag or my 7 MM STW in a single session at the bench. After that fatigue sets in and shooting becomes painful. Continuing beyond that point would quickly lead to an induced flinch, NO THANKS. And I use a PAST recoil shield and Pachmeyer Decelerator 1 inch recoil pad on the rifle.
I would buy the 300 Win in the Win Mod 70 Classic. I have owned several Win 70's in 30-06, 300 Win Mag, and my favorite, 264 Win Mag. With a single exception, I have been able to make all of them shoot less than MOA with simple tuning, glass bedding, and load developement; all done at home. And I find the Mod 70 a good looking rifle. It can be obtained in many combinations of blued steel or stainless with synthetic, walnut, or laminated wood stocks. Walmart is now carring a new style of Win model 70 with a synthetic stock in 300 WSM for a very reasonable price. It is not as pretty as the Mod 70 Classic in walnut, but the price sure is right.
I just find that the minimal performance gains to be had in the 300 Dakota, 300 Pegasus, 300 Kong, 30-378 Wea, 7.82 Warbird, 300 RUM, Or even the 300 Wea Mag just cost far to much in terms of recoil, powder consumption, and ammunition cost.
You mentioned that you do not intend to handload ammo for you rifle. Another benifit of the 300 Win Mag is ammo availability, almost any place that sells ammo will carry 30-30, 308, 30-06, and 300 Win Mag. Decent ammo is usually priced right too.

flyingcircusboy · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2003, 06:35:59 PM »

Thank You for your input. It has been very informative and very well said.

Dand · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2003, 09:25:08 AM »

I'd say go with 300 win or 338 win with 300Wby third choice only because ammo isn't as widely distributed. I shoot 300 win and it really does it all except for Africa. If you plan to mess with really big moose and brown bears or are concerned about self defense in bear country go with the 338. I spent 6 months agonizing between the two and picked the 300 for convenience of my reloading component supplies (also load 30-06). With a good 225 bullet load in .338 you could do almost everything anywhere - it is an excellent cartridge. I think the recoil difference between the two depends quite a bit on stock design and gun weight - though the 250 .338 loads do have significant punch above anything I've shot in my 300 including 220 gr. I think the Ultramags and similar are way too much of a good thing. The short magnums are very interesting but I'd want to be sure feeding is absolutely positive - and I'd be concerned about ammo availablility. My .02.

JBabcock · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2003, 02:23:38 PM »

I've owned the 7mm Rem mag, the 300 Weatherby mag and the 338 Win mag. Of the 3 my favorite is far and away the 338. The Weatherby just kicked to hard for me to enjoy shooting it. I know people say the 338 with 250's kicks harder than the 300's, but for me it's not even close, unless I shoot High Energy loads. Then the 338 becomes to much of a good thing. The 7mm Rem mag doesn't really make sense to me. My 30-06 will do anything it will do with a lot less muss and fuss. Plus ammo is cheaper and there is a better selection of bullets. If it was me? I'd go with the 338. It's the only magnum that really makes sense to me. For awhile I wanted a 338-06, but not anymore. The 338 does it for me. If I could have just 2 Rifles for North America, they would be the 30-06 and the 338 Win Mag. That sure wouldn't be any fun though would it?

My 338 is a Winchester SS Classic, super accurate rifle.

Zachary · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2003, 02:34:32 PM »

FlyingCircusBoy,

Out of all of the 4 cartridges that you mentioned, I would have to recommend the .300 Win. Mag. Granted, even it is too much for most of NA hunting. I wouldn't so much recommend the .338 (although I have one) because bullets in that caliber, generally speaking, are just too stout for most NA hunting such as whitetail and mule deer, antelope, etc. With the .300 WM, you can get a variety of bullets to best suit your needs.

Someone mentioned the .300 WSM. It's virtually identical to the .300 WM, except that the factory ammo in the WSM is very limited compared to the WM.

In any event, I have a question for you: CAN YOU HANDLE THE POWER FROM EVEN THE 300 WIN. MAG.? If not, or at least borderline, then forget about the other choices.

Zachary

acearch72 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2003, 02:56:01 PM »

Idaho Shooter,

I have a 264 WinMag also and it's a favorite of mine also. What loads do you shoot for deer?

PaulS · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2003, 10:47:40 AM »

flyingcircusboy,
The best magnum for big game in the lower 48 is the 3006 Springfield. OK, I got that off my chest and now to your problem.

Of the weapons you have selected, the 300 Winchester is probably the best choice. The 300 Weatherby has too much free bore to be a really accurate weapon. (my opinion only) The 338 is just too much gun (I can't believe I am saying this) for most NA game. The Ultra mag (and all it's look-alike cousins) are just too new and may fade into oblivion in the next 3 to 5 years. The Winchester is like any other long case, high capacity, cartridge in that it headspaces on the shoulder and performs well when handled like any other weapon.

Good luck in your choice,
Paul

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2003, 11:25:10 AM »

flyingcircusboy,

1.) Of the two rifles you mentioned I would choose the Win. M70 over the Remington. Reason is that if you have a problem with your rifle at least Winchester has a customer service that WILL try to help you. Remington has forgotten what customer service means.

2.) Of the cartridges you mentioned I would choose for cartridge availability. That means which cartridge can you walk into Backwater, USA and be somewhat assured that you can find ammo to fit your rifle. The .300 WM, .338 WM and .300 Weatherby Magnum are three that fit that criteria. Winchester doesn't have the much talked about freebore that Weatherby uses in their rifles. Since Weatherby rifles come with a guarantee for accuracy of 1.5" out of the box don't worry about freebore. It's not an issue. I would go with the .300 Win. Mag. in a M70 unless you are going after the bigger bears then go with the .338. Lawdog

Idaho Shooter · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2003, 03:50:55 PM »

acearch72
I have not had the chance to kill a deer with my 264, seems that it was always on the other side of the mountain with my son and I end up using the old reliable 30-06.

That won't happen again, I sold the 30-06.

My favorite load with the 264 is a 120 gr balistic tip over 64 gr H4831, with a CCI 250 primer for 3225 fps. I have killed several feral dogs and coyotes with this load. It is accurate enough to hit a coyote in the heart at 300 yd if I have time to get prone and set up with the Harris Bipod.
My son killed a buck mule deer this year with this bullet, but it was fired from my new 260 Rem at a slower velocity.
I also use the 100 gr Nosler balistic tip over 61 gr H4350 to shoot ground squirrels, which are very plentiful here in central Idaho. This load makes 3310 fps according to the Chrony.
These loads are a little slow for the 264, but that helps me to achieve similar balistic curves from several rifles.
I have also burned up a couple hundred 140 gr Partitions doing load developement. I had some problems with pressure spikes and mediocre accuracy with this bullet in my rifle.
Now that I have the 260 to shoot 120 gr bullets, and the 7STW to shoot 160 gr bullets, I intend to do some more work with 140 gr bullets in the 264. I intend to try 140 gr spitzer boat tails for a shorter bearing surface and moly coated bullets to reduce barrel friction.

Idaho Shooter

acearch72 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2003, 05:01:26 PM »

Idaho Shooter,

My son also inherited my .264. This year he tried the 120 Nosler BT, but he had mixed luck. A couple of 'drop 'em in their tracks' kills at less than 200 yds. but at a shot of around 350 yds. the deer stumbled, fell, then got up and staggered off into the woods. NO blood trail at all. Zero blood. Lost deer.

We guess that the bullet hit a bone and shattered with no penetration, or didn't have enough velocity to penetrate fully when expanded and lacked energy for quick kill at the longer range. We're still scratching our heads on what to try, but we won't shoot the Ballistic Tips next year.

Sort of leaning toward the Nosler Partition or maybe Barnes X, but I have had problems with accuracy with the Barnes X in my 7mm. Possibly the Swift Aframe.

Anybody got comments or suggestions.

Idaho Shooter · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2003, 04:18:56 PM »

Acearch,
I have tried the 120 gr Barnes X bullet in my 264. It gave decent enough accuracy to cleanly take deer out to 300 Yd, but I never could get the precise type of accuracy I wanted. The 125 gr Partition might be a good choice also. Sierra makes a 120 gr pro-hunter flat base bullet, but I don't know anyone who has tried these.
I am hoping that Nosler will give us an accubond bullet or a Failsafe in 6.5 mm one day soon. Or possibly Hornady will beat them to the punch with a .264 Accubond.
I mentioned earlier that my son killed his deer this year with the 120 Bal. Tip. He hit the deer squarely in the ham. The bullet shattered the leg bone from the hip all the way down to the next joint. Pieces of bone and bullet were scattered throughout the ham. Not many round steaks on that side of the deer. We butchered the deer at home, so we were able to clean up the ham and salvage most of it for stew meat or jerky makings. Our Golden Retriever also got a portion of it though.
After deer season I shot the load he used over the Chrony--- 2750 fps. I doubt that we would have saved much meat from that ham if the bullet had been from a 3400 fps load.
I guess I need to spend some more time with my son and the anatomy chart. He seems to be interested only in the anatomy of two legged dears right now. Funny how that is, at nineteen. :-D