Rebarreling a Browning B-78 - Questions

[PeterF.]

I'm thinking about changing the barrel on my Browning B-78 single shot from .22-250 to .223.  I know the B-78 action is a pain to work on, but I'm just talking about changing the barrel (and extractor).  I see (from the Browning parts list) that many of the parts on B-78s are interchangeable with the newer 1885s ... and they made the 1885 in .223; but they only sell barrels as barrel-plus-receiver ... for big bucks ... so I'd  essentially have to build up a whole new gun just to change the caliber.  Anybody got any hands-on experience with B-78s and/or 1885s to know: 1) would a .223 barrel from an 1885 fit a B-78 receiver?; 2) if not, how big a deal is it to install an aftermarket/custom barrel on a B-78?; 3) who's a good gunsmith to do this job? Thanks in advance for any info. PeterF.

[gewehrfreund]

To answer your questions:
1. The threads should be the same on both "models". Can't imagine why it would be otherwise. Therefore a .223 1885 barrel could be screwed into a B78 receiver. I think the problem will arise with the extractor as these are different between the two models ( the 1885 extractor is thinner, so some machining will be needed if you use the B78 extractor, but an 1885 extractor may fit the B78?)

2. Any good gunsmith with a lathe and mill can rebarrel your B78. I had one rebarrelled from 7mm Mag to 30-30 last year. Check the back of Rifle or Handloader magazine or check in Gunlist.

Here are some other things to consider:
The B78's are becoming rarer and you could always download the 22-250 to obtain 223 ballistics.
Browning made their low wall in 223, which although now a bit pricey would be a good alternative (they also made the 1885 in 223, but these are hard to find and go for lots of money).
I know logic doesn't often come into play in decisions about guns, so good luck whatever you decide to do.

[PeterF.]

Thanks, gewehrfreund.  As you say, logic has nothing to do with some of these decisions.  In fact, I HAD a .223 LoWall, but I really want it in a HiWall, particularly a B-78.  In your conversion, were both the old and new barrels "heavy round", or octagon?  If it was an octagon, what brand of new barrel did you use ... and what gunsmith?  I hope you are right that the threads are all the same ... between both the B-78 and 1885 and between calibers in either type.   Can someone else confirm this?  I'm a little concerned that Browning only sells the 1885 barrel-plus-receiver, together; I'm thinking they may need to be matched, size-wise (or maybe Browning is just trying to maximize their income).  I'll figure out a way to deal with the extractor issue; it's a relatively inexpensive part.   Thanks, again.  PeterF.

[gewehrfreund]

I've been searching for a low wall in 22 Hornet or 223 for a long time (at a resaonable price)! I too prefer the high wall, but need a centerfire low wall to fill things out.
My original barrel was an octagon 7mm Mag (med weight?, shot-out, pitted, etc.). The new barrel is a Wind River heavy octagon (from Brownells). I have custom stocks on mine (LH) so barrel fit was not a big issue. I would guess that the barrelled action only policy by Browning is probably as much a liability issue as a profit scheme. Actually, I was surprised to hear that Browning is still in the single shot business; I was under the impression that Winchester had taken over the 1885.
As for gunsmiths, mine is a retired fellow here in upstate NY who knows what he's doing, but does these things on a part time basis at best, I'd ask around in your area or maybe someone on this site can recommend soemone much neareer to you. Also, most of the barrel makers could barrel your B78. A web search should find most of them. I almost sent mine to Montana Rifle, but decided to have it done locally.

[PeterF.]

Thanks for the additional info.  I traded my LoWall on something else I was looking for at the time; as usual, got skunked on the trade.  I'm always checking GunsAmerica for B-78s, HiWalls and LoWalls.  There have been a couple of .223 LoWalls in the past few weeks, at $800-$890 (the latter new-in-box); I see an occasional Hornet, and there was a .243 a couple of days ago.  Good luck and thanks again. PeterF.

[JohnClif]

I dunno if the barrels will exchange. It seems that the Low Wall barrel shank is smaller in diameter than the High Wall (for the same reason that Winchester did it with the originals... lets the smaller receiver be thinner as well).

If I were going to rebarrel a B-78, I'd just order a barrel blank and let a gunsmith fit it to the action. You'll most likely get a better barrel than the Browning factory barrel, and you can get it in the material you like with the contour you like, with the holes you like, the bore diameter you like, etc. Re the extractor, a good gunsmith can alter your extractor to work with any cartridge, or he can order a replacement extractor only that's close enough and make it work.

The reasonsFN/USRAC/Browning won't sell the actions without a barrel (and the barrels without an action) are two-fold: one, they really don't want to be in the action and barrel selling business, and two, for liability reasons. Browning/USRAC Sales/Marketing specs the number of firearms in each configuration that they think they can sell in a year from Miroku and their own plants, and that is what is produced, along with a small number of spare parts that are overages from production runs. I'm sure that most of the spares are just extra production.

[PeterF.]

JonClif:
I think you're right that a LoWall barrel probably won't fit on a B-78 (or HiWall) receiver; the LoWall really is smaller in that area and the barrel seems thinner over-all.  However, they did make the 1885 HiWall in .223 ... it's listed in the Browning web-site parts list; so I was hoping to do a HiWall-to-B-78 switch.  While Browning isn't selling any of their 1885 versions (B-78, HiWall or LoWall), they still cover parts for the HiWall and LoWall; and many of the parts for the HiWall are interchangeable with the corresponding part on the B-78 (it actually says so on the parts list).  Meanwhile, they consider the B-78 an "obsolete" model, and don't directly sell any parts specifically for the B-78 ... that's all farmed out to Chathams.  Also, just because it's listed (either with Chathams or Browning) apparently doesn't mean a part is actually available.  There was a  guy looking for a B-78 grip cap a couple of weeks ago; I referred him to Chathams, but they told him "good luck to you".
Meanwhile, my B-78 in .22-250 is looking better to me as-is.  I'll probably leave it alone for now and maybe look for another B-78 to tinker with.

[gunnut69]

I am unsure of the modern Hiwalls and lowwalls but the originals used a thread of a bit over .800 inch for both the hiwall and lowwall whith barrels of No.2 weight and lighter.  With No.3 and heavier barrels the major diameter rose to a bit larger than .900 inch.  Took a while to find the reference!!  Good luck..

[GGaskill]

Perhaps ten years ago, I rebarreled a .22-250 Browning 78 to .375 Winchester as a modern equivalent plus of a .38-55.  I used a Shilen barrel blank and machined it octagon.  I do not remember the shank threads and dimensions but still have the old barrel and will get it and measure it for you.  You may need to lengthen the extractor a little for the smaller diameter cartridge but I would expect it will work without too much difficulty.  One interesting note is the barrel was secured with loctite as I recall.

OK.  The barrel shank is .916" in length and .934" in diameter over the threads.  There is a short section of reduced diameter at the rear of .047" length (included in the .916" length above) and .705" diameter.  The shank is threaded its whole length with what appear to be 1.25 mm pitch threads.