First Handi rifle today???

[bigjeepman]

I am going back to the gunshop today and possibly buy my first Handi. He has a .204 ($215) and a .223 ($220) with the bull barrels. I shoot a lot and have always preferred haevy barrels except in my coyote rifle ( .243) that I carry over long distances. I have a new Savage 10 FP with the Acuu-trigger that is one heck of a tack-driver but the setup weighs around 10 lbs. I am looking for a smaller bore than my .243 to carry for coyotes and groundhogs.

I reload so I am already set up for the .223 if that is the one I choose. What do you guys think about my choice for the .204 or the .223? To set up to reload for another caliber isn't cheap as I'll need new dies, shell holders, powder, etc. I do not mind doing this but the expectations from the .204 would be pretty high. I would be happy if I could get .500" to .750" 5 shot groups from the Handi in .223. I will probably put a Bushnell Elite scope on it. If I get the .204, my expectations would be .500" 5 shot groups. Can I tweak this Handi to do that with some trigger work and other work? What else would I have to do to get it to shoot that good? What will it take to get the trigger down to 2 to 2 1/2 lbs?

[Brett]

Hi Bigjeepman,

Welcome to the world of Handi-Holics.  That is a tough choice since you all ready have everything you need to load .223 you would save some bread going with the .223.  However, it is always fun adding a new caliber to the stable.  Check the "Stickies" at the top of the forum for tips on accuracy improvements and a good how to on trigger jobs.  Sorry I don't have any first hand experience with either .223 or .204 caliber in Handi's so any knowledge I could impart would be second hand at best.  Good luck with which ever caliber you choose.

[mitchell]

well as for reloading all you'll need is dies , bullets and cases. they take the same shell holder and i use the same powder. of the two (i have had both) i would have to get the 204 it out preforms the 223 in every way, it just cost a little more. if your going to reload then i would think that you could get the groups you said in both rifles.

[quickdtoo]

You don't need to reload for the .223, the majority of them shoot the win white box 45gr JHP as good or better than mosts handloads, and at $13 for 40 aren't too expensive. The triggers are easy to get to a little over 2lbs and can be even less if you really want to, but I wouldn't recommend it for a field gun. Links to the Raynor trigger hone sticky in the H&R/NEF Misc forum are below along with Perklo's detailed instructions. Between the 2, you should be able to do a trigger hone with no problems.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=52341

http://www.perkloafm.com/

[bigjeepman]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. I just returned from the shop (they are friends of mine) and the rifles were both gone. I went ahead and had them order the .223 in a bull barrel and the price I got was $200 as someplace had them on sale. I will check out the stickys as advised and start tweaking when the rifle arrives next Tuesday.

As Mitchell said, the shellholders are the same and I wouldn't have had to buy any. I am going on a prairie dog hunt in late May hopefully and I decided to just stay with the .223 caliber since I am already reloading for it. If this Handi meets my expectations accuracy-wise, I will get the .204 next. I have always been a bolt and lever action guy, but, the Handis have my curiosity buzzing. I will attempt my first camo paint job too with this rifle.

As for as reloading for the .223 cal, I have my Savage shooting less than .500" groups with Nosler BT 55 gr bullets. I love Nosler bullets. What is the twist rate for the .223 SB2-323 barrel?

[quickdtoo]

The .223 twist is 1 in 12", best for bullets of 55gr and lighter, although there are a few here that are able to shoot heavier bullets good,

[bigjeepman]

quickdtoo...

Thanks for the info on the twist. My Savage 10 FP has a 1:9 twist and loves the 55 gr Nosler Bt bullets. The Handi I have coming should like anything 55 and under and that is what I was looking for. I am a Nosler BT fan but will try the Vmax bullets as well starting at 55 gr and work my way down to find the right load. I love to reload and searching for a rifle's best load is a big part of the enjoyment I get from my firearms.

I have always wanted a single shot rifle and I am thinking I have made the right choice. I want another carry rifle for coyotes to go along with my .243 Ruger all weather rifle. The coyotes get pretty big around these parts but I have a lot of confidence in the Nosler BT in .223. I am looking for this set up to shoot sub moa consistently. I use shooting stix in the field and think this rifle will fit my needs nicely. If the .223 works out very well, I will get another Handi in .204.

[quickdtoo]

I don't handload for the .223.....yet......but I have shot the Ultramax reman ammo with the 40gr Nosler BT, it shoots almost as good as the win white box 45gr JHP which shoots sub 1/2moa or real close to it all the time. My best groups with the 45gr JHP have been .265" and .440"... :grin:

[mitchell]

well there isn't a darn thing wrong with the 223 ,i'm shopping for one right now.
i've only done load work on 6 different 223 (4 mine 2 for friends)with 1-12 twist and all of them but one has liked a max load of Bl-c2 and either a hornady or nosler 55 grain bullet . this has become my go-to load for all 223 NEF's. just some free add information .

congrats on the soon to be new gun

[Nuttinbutchunks]

You see, there's a reason we hang around here on this forum. We love our Handis, and you will too. Start shooting them, see what they will do, and you'll be hooked. The neat thing is, they shoot as good as something far more expensive. That's what I like about them. Be prepared to start collecting them. Its not the most expensive habbit you could have .

[redrider101]

I personally would not get a bull barrel for a carry gun, but each to his own.  When your in the field the weight of the gun (or lack of it) is much more important than whether it shoots 1/4" groups or 1" groups. You already said that you don't care for the weight of your Savage so why go bull??? Heck I'd consider the ultra-light.

 Your just trying to kill critters not make small groups in paper. My brother and I have a saying "MOA means middle of animal." You only have to get the bullet in the boiler room, you don't  HAVE to shoot 'em in the eye.

 I got my first Handi in 22 Hornet and I absolutely love it, (Hi, I'm Red and I'm a handi-holic)  but even though it does not have a bull barrel it stills wants to be carried bbl. down.   It is weight forward pretty heavily so a bull would only be worse.  

Don't get me wrong though, I like a nice cloverleaf as much as the next guy.  But it doesn't matter in the field unless you plan on 300+ yard shots.  Maybe you do but that is beyond my field capabilities.

Good luck, or congratulations or have a great day or whatever.
Redrider.

[bigjeepman]

Thanks again guys for the replies. You guys really communicate on this forum with a lot of good, honest opinions. I appreciate all of them.

redrider101 ...

I should have told all of you that I shoot at least 3 times a week at the range. I shoot a lot more paper in a week than I do in the field all year. I do want this to be a carry rifle but it also has to be able to handle 30 to 40 rounds fired through it every time I take it to the range. I take several rifles and handguns to the range each time to give the barrels adequate cool down time between groups to help prolong barrel life. This rifle shouldn't weigh more than 8 lbs with scope, sling, etc. I can carry this weight all day if needed. I tried the Savage .223 weighing over 10 lbs on one trip in hilly Southern Indiana and I could handle it but I was pretty tired at the end of the day. I bought that setup mostly for a prairie dog, groundhogs, and the range.

I have a 21 year old son that is a hunter. I am keeping him in mind everytime I get another firearm so that almost all situations will be covered for him in the field. I noticed Mitchell's age and I think that it is awesome that a young man of 18 can already respond to reloading questions. I wish I would have started reloading earlier in my life but am very happy I do now. I have a spare bedroom that I emptied out completely for a self-built bench, cabinets, etc. Since I am a single parent, I reload, shoot, or hunt as I wish. I haven't had anyone say "no" whenever I get the fever to buy another rifle (3 this year) or a handgun (2 this year.)


quickdtoo...

That is some awesome shooting you're doing. Those kind of numbers give me chills and I will spend quite a bit of time working toward that. My Savage shot a 4 shot (all holes touching) group with the Win white box on the 3rd group we shot with it. Those white box Winchesters are a salvation for many shooters. I use them too at times I can't keep up with all of my reloading as I reload for 5 calibers.

Nuttinbutchunks ...

I think I am hooked already and I won't even get my first Handi until Tuesday. I'll need more help when it comes to the tweaking of the rifle.

[cattleskinner]

Another thing that you might want to do to the rifle is bed the scope rail since it will come with the standard base.  For that you just take the rail off, and degrease it good, then apply a releasing agent to it(some sort of oil works good), then smear JB weld on the area that the base overhangs the chamber area, and attach your scope base on snugly.  Before it completely dries, take a wet rag and wipe any excess that "seeps" out from the edges of the base.  It took me two times to get it so that the JB completely filled the area, and looked good(one on top of the other to fill any gaps from the first application).  This will help keep the base from bending/moving from recoil, and the weight of the scope(in case it's a larger varmint type).  Another thing that I did was take a small punch, and knock out the rearmost pin on the barrel lug...this will release the ejector, and two springs for it(don't knock it all the way out, or you will have a devil of a time getting it back in).  When it's out, you will be able to clean the ejector out really good, and hopefully reduce the chances of a stuck case.  Then just line the holes back up, and put 'er back together.  And one last thing, my rifle likes 27.3gr. of Varget, 50gr. V-Max, and CCI BR-4 primers in Lake City brass.  Good luck.

~~~Cattleskinner

[jdseven1]

I was thinking of getting a .204 barrel and the cost is over $140 with shipping. labor.  But bigjeepman said he can  get a .204 for $215 I may just buy the 204 for $215.  What do some of you guys think???

[bigjeepman]

Though I still do not have possession of my first NEF, I'd go for another rifle myself instead of just the barrel in .204. I am not sure where my friend who owns the gunshop orders from but he said they are on sale there and I am now getting my .223 for $200 instead of $220 (I think that was the original price.)

Since I am new to the Handi-Holics club, I do not know how the barrel switch works with these rifles. Do you have to send them back to the company for a fit with the new barrel?

[quickdtoo]

To order an accessory barrel, you would check with H&R for the availability of the barrel you want and to make sure it can be fitted to your frame by serial number, then if all is good to go, you ship your frame with no barrel to H&R, they fit the barrel and hopefully within 4-6 weeks, you'll get the fitted barrel and your frame back by UPS. When you figure the cost of a barrel, you need to add the shipping to and from, plus the $15 barrel fitting charge.  That's the barrel cost and $25 plus what it cost you to ship your frame to them.

Used barrels can be fitted to your frame, but they don't always fit and may require some work to get fitted. H&R will only sell barrels that they fit to your frame, they won't fit your used barrel to your frame, either.

I would check around, new Handis sell for $190 to $200 here, regular price, not on sale. Walmart sells all their Handis for less than $200, the ultras for about $240.

[cheatermk3]

If this were a poll, I'd be voting for another whole rifle.

[De41mag]

bigjeepman;

Sounds like your on the way to a great rifle. I know you are excited.
I just bought 500rnds of the Win. white box. A friend and myself went in and bought a case. We got them in the 50rnd. value pack for $11.80 not the 40rnd. and that included shipping.
Also as you noted that mitchell was well informed about these rifles, and I've noticed that cattleskinner, who is 22 is also very well informed and seems very helpful on questions and is not afraid to ask them also. These young guys amaze me.
You, like myself spend a lot of time at the range. And I always take handguns and rifles. I'd rather do that than anything. Spend a whole day at the range.
Good Luck and good shooting.

Dennis  

[bigjeepman]

De41mag ...

I with you on these younger guys on their knowledge and willingness to step in and participate in this forum. My son is 21 and is in his third year of college. He was a great athlete who has turned that energy to hunting, shooting, and partying of course. He is not reloading yet as he stays really busy with his school, hunting, etc. He wants me to teach him about reloading after he graduates when he will also take up bow hunting. When he does something, he wants to be the best he can be and right now he cannot commit that much time to these other things. He is pretty competitive but I think that can be a very good thing.

The reason I reload so much is that I am a single father with my son in college away from our small town. I have used and will continue to use the Winchester ammo. The groups I shot with it in my Savage were outstanding. My brother shot a 4 shot group with all holes touching @ 100 yds on the 3rd group we shot in that new rifle after sighting the Bushnell Elite 4200 in at 50 yds. I will do the break in of the new barrel with the Winchesters because I just have too much labor tied up in my reloads and I know the Winchesters are very consistent.

Thanks for your input ...

[jdseven1]

Quickdtoo. Thanks again I will check with wal-mart and see if I can order the .204. Thats where I got my .223 and I think it was $200 with tax.

[Donaldo]

bigjeepman
I think you are going to love that 223 Handi.  I have always owned bolt action rifles of various calibers.  Last year I bought a Handi Ultra Varm in 223.  Never have had so much fun with a rifle.  The fun part about these rifles is that they are cheap enough your can feel ok about doing modifications to them.  Many of us have done trigger jobs, changed barrels, stocks, etc.  I worked most of last summer and fall trying to find a load that shot as good as the WW white box 45 JHP stuff.  Finally found it, 27.0 gr W748 behind a 52 Sierra MK.  Shot under 1 inch all the time.  Then I made a change in the forend and had to go on to 28.0 to get it back to 1 inch and less.  Now I have made another change to the forend and installed a new scope.  Am waiting for a fairly calm day to test a bunch of handloads to see if I did any good on the forend change.  I think you will love the single shot rifle.

[bigjeepman]

Donaldo ...

Thanks for your input. I was going to get the Ultra Varmit Rifle in .223 as I have always wanted a laminate stock but decided this first Handi will be a project as you have stated yours have been. I have always wanted to do a camo job on one of my rifles and I think this will be the one but I first have to get it shooting sub MOA groups.

By the end of this day, I will have worked up 17 different load combinations to try in the .223 Handi. This is one of the reasons I have to have the heavier barrels. I might be trying test loads for a month before I find one or two that I will be happy with. I get great fun out of searching for the sweet loads. As "quick" and others have pointed out, the WIN white box ammo is hard to beat and I will keep a box of the 45 gr and 55 gr around. My brother buys the Federal reloads in 55 gr for his AR collection and they have shot well in my Savage but not quite as good as the WIN.

Does your .223 tend to favor flat base or boattail bullets?

[cattleskinner]

Awww shucks fellas....now you're making me blush :oops:

Good shooting,
~~~Cattleskinner

[bigjeepman]

Wanted to get an update in here about my first Handi....

I picked it up Tuesday after work and took it home with me. I gave it the JB bore paste treatment pretty good and cleaned up the whole rifle. This was going to be a project gun as I had intentions of doing a "camo" paint job on my newest coyote gun. Well, when we opened the box at the gunshop, no one could believe how nice the stock looked. It does look better than I thought it would and now painting it is the last thing on my mind.

Tonight after work, I took it back to the gunshop which has a range behind it. I chose the 50 yd range as I wanted to get my new Swift scope zeroed in. After 5 rounds of WIN white box 45 gr bullets, I had it centered and about an inch about the bullseye. I went to my next target and fired off three rounds which formed a nice group measuring .431". I was pretty happy with this first group even though it was at 50 yds. I shot three more groups with the 45 gr bullets and each one was under .750".

I then started shooting the WIN white box 55 gr FMJ from Walmart. The largest group measured .751". Again, I was pretty happy with the results because we were having between 25 and 35 mph winds at the time I was shooting all of these groups. I had just gotten my first taste of this Handi-holic thing and I was going to shoot tonight no matter what. Needless to say, I am very satisfied up to this point seeing no modifications of any kind have been done to this .223. My trigger gauge measured the pull at 4.5 lbs and i am used to a 2 lb maximum on my other rifles.

Thanks for all your help ... but i'll need more later on.

[bigjeepman]

Hope I am not boring anyone but I have another update on my first Handi. I went back to the range tonight with my new .223 Handi and my 4-12x40 Swift scope and setup at the 100 yard range. I had the scope hitting a good spot at the 50 yard distance from the night before but it was time to test at 100 yards. Again, I started off with the WIN white box 45 gr and shot 2  ... 3 shot groups that averaged 1.15". On my third group, the group measured right at .750". My 4.5 lb trigger is pretty darn crisp but I am not used to a trigger that heavy but I am happy with the groupings.

I shot a few groups with the 55gr fmj ammo but the groups opened up to a little over an inch. I then tried the first of my reloads ... 24gr of H335 with an OAL of 2.261" and CCI 400 primers in WIN brass. I shoot 5 shot groups when I test reloads and this 5 shot group measured .883". This makes me pretty happy for a start. My next load is 24.5gr and this group measured .690". My next load was with 25gr of H335 and this group measured .604". The manual says this load's velocity should be around 3170 fps.

I am really pleasantly surprised with the start of getting this new coyote rifle shooting consistently under 1.00". I have done no modifications at all and am shooting off a Harris bipod with a back rest. I will have to read up about the O ring treatment and the trigger adjustment process after work tomorrow.

Any one have any suggestions for me at this point?

[bigjeepman]

Sorry ...

Forgot to mention that I was using 50gr Nosler BT bullets in my reloads. I am a big fan of the Noslers.

[quickdtoo]

Just to reiterate my previous post....

The triggers are easy to get to a little over 2lbs and can be even less if you really want to, but I wouldn't recommend it for a field gun. Links to the Raynor trigger hone sticky in the H&R/NEF Misc forum are below along with Perklo's detailed instructions. Between the 2, you should be able to do a trigger hone with no problems.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=52341

http://www.perkloafm.com/

[bigjeepman]

Thanks again Quick ... you have been a lot of help. I also thank all of you others who have participated in my posts.

Tomorrow is Saturday and I will attempt my first trigger job.

[quickdtoo]

Fred M has some tips that will help when working on the trigger that you might like to check out.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/tweakultra.html

[MSP Ret]

bigjeepman, let us know how it comes out, any pitfalls and things to
be extra cautious about and such, Thanks and good luck....<><.... :grin: