Author Topic: Shot bm3 Tonight (Read 1886 times)

BeanMan · « **on:** February 18, 2005, 05:01:53 PM »

I got my BM3 in the mail tonight and had a little time to go out and shoot. It was raining and near dark so I wasn't trying so much for accuracy as for checking out fouling. I shot 8 consecutive shots without swabbing between. The bullets were 348 grain powerbelts and I loaded 90 grains of bm3. I used the Rem 209-4 primers.

Loading and seating the bullets, even on the 8th shot, was easy, no problem getting them down all the way. By the last shot it was getting harder but much easier than with T7 after one shot. Cleaning: I used a pad dampened with rubbing alcohol and windex. It came out with a gray color but not real dirty looking. By the third pad it was very clean.

Breech plug: The breech plug was greased with Knights plug grease and unscrewed easily.

Overall I was surprised and pleased. After I get a lot more shots out of it I'll have a better idea but right now I am very pleased with Black Mag 3.

BeanMan

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2005, 05:27:21 PM »

Keep us posted.

simonkenton · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2005, 01:01:57 AM »

Sounds good.
Come on, Bass Pro Shop, start selling this stuff.

wild willy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2005, 05:15:16 AM »

I got a pound the other day too when I first saw it noticed how small the container is thought maybe it was denser than black but its not can was full to top I weighed some charges 85 grs BM3 by weight equals 100grs volume

Stan M. · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2005, 04:53:32 PM »

BeanMan,
BM3 powder seems to be the way to go. What kind of rifle did you shoot it in and did you have crud ring problems with the 777?
Thanks for the report. One day I'll get a chance to go burn some. Just too busy, sick or too cold and windy.
Stan

BeanMan · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2005, 04:35:50 AM »

Stan,

My rifle is a TC Omega and yes I had crud ring problems.

BeanMan

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2005, 05:43:28 AM »

My .50cal Stainless Omega was probably the worst crud ring rifle I have heard described and is now super clean with Black Mag'3. Black Mag'3 and T/C Omega rifles are made for each other.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2005, 05:04:32 PM »

I shot BM3 for the first time today.

Now, I'm the first to tell you - I'm a newbie. I've been a whitetail hunter for about 20 yrs. Mostly archery and a bit of slug guns. A couple years back I got turned on to MLs. Been having a "blast" ever since. In fact, last year I left my slug gun at home and took 4 whitetail with my ML.

That being said, I'm not sold on BM3. Cleaner? Yes - without a doubt. I was amazed at how easily my breach plug came out. Swabbing after each shot yielded barely some grey dust. NICE.

The down side, my groups were about 2 inches larger then my groups of loose 777. I'll say one thing, I can see how this thing yields more velocity. I don't have a chrono., but when I put 100 gr of BM3 down the bore, my 50 cal Knight Elite fealt like a different gun. It was a HOT load. I'm sure I was gaining significant velocity. The problem was that I just couldn't contrlol it.

I tried everything from 70gr to 100 gr with 300 gr Barnes Expanders and 285 gr Barnes Spitfires. They just wouldn't group with the BM3 (abt 3-4 inches at 50 yds). I wish they would have because this stuff really burns CLEAN - unlike 777.

Any advice?

Thanks all. Mike[/code]

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2005, 06:01:50 PM »

Black Mag'3 usually shoots better if you do not swab between shots. It develops a "bore lubricant" condition that makes the next shot better than if you swab between. I find the bore when completely clean and dry shoots within a half inch of the same point at 100 yards than successive shots without swab between. I had the results with Harvester sabots and 300gr. bullets in an Omega .50. I also had very good results with Powerbelts from 295gr. to 348gr. I have not shot Barnes bullets yet. I have some but have not gotten that far as yet. I am also concerned about your comment about recoil. I find the opposite; Black Mag'3 makes a lot higher velocity over my chronograph than equivalent measures of ffg 777 yet the 777 recoil is much sharper and feels a lot heavier. Black Mag'3 is more like real black in the felt recoil and develops velocity as the projectile travels the bore rather than getting a sharp initial slap like the 777 does. Possibly you are shooting a bullet/sabot combination that in your barrel needs the initial sharp slap to obturate the bullet enough to make the sabot engrave the rifling properly. If the bullet/sabot combination is a little too loose it may not perform that way with a slower pressure rise rate powder like Black Mag'3. My Omega is a very tight bore and is less likely to have a loose fit of the bullet/sabot in fact I have to select bullets and sabots that will even go down the bore. You might have to find a slightly thicker sabot to use with the Barnes bullets to get the accuracy that I know Black Mag'3 can deliver. Hope this helps.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #9 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:31:01 AM »

Thanks Keith. Believe me, I want to be able to shoot the BM3. I was very impressed with how clean the stuff was. Just some slight gray “ash” type residue on my swab after shooting. My breach plug has never come out easier either.

I’ve always swabbed between shots. Most often I fire a fouling shot prior to going hunting. So, when the moment of truth comes, the most my barrel will have through it is one round. That’s why I swab between shots. I want to replicate a hunting type shot as best I can. If my bore has to be heavily fouled to get accuracy, I’m probably going to look for a different load. Then again, you said you’re only losing half an inch at 100 yds due to swabbing. I can certainly live with that.

I tried every thing from 70-100 grs. Just couldn’t get an acceptable group with either the Barnes Expander or the Barnes Spitfire. The tightest I could get was 4 inch groups at 50 yds. When I went to 100 gr of loose T7, I had 4 Expander holes touching each other. I’m going to try it this weekend with a 285 gr Buffalo Bullet and the BM3 and see how that works.

My bore is pretty tight too. I shoot a 50 cal Knight Disc Elite. I don’t think the sabot being too loose was the problem. That’s a good thought though. Any other thoughts as to what I should try? Thanks.

simonkenton · « **Reply #10 on:** March 14, 2005, 12:31:37 PM »

I got a pound of Black Mag3 from Cabelas.
I shot a couple cylinders in my cap and ball pistol. This stuff is fabulous in the pistol. Very clean burning, accurate, and easy to clean up.
I will try it this week in my Savage.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #11 on:** March 14, 2005, 01:11:48 PM »

Just for shooting I bought some Ranier copper coated 300gr. cast bullets from Midsouth and a pack of Harvester sabots. I figured they should shoot close to the 295gr. Powerbelt and the 300gr. Hornady SST. I didn't want to use up all the expensive stuff setting sights etc. I was amazed at the first three shots with 100gr. Black Mag'3 and those cast bullets. I had a 7/8 inch center to center group almost off target due to not having the sight set yet but the group was there. Velocity was just under 2000fps average for the three shots. Powerbelts shoot great in my rifle. I also had good luck with the Hornady bullets. Black Mag'3 generally likes heavier bullets so I would try to stay with 300gr. or heavier. The 285gr. might be OK too. I will be interested to hear. That group was at 100 yards with a scope on the Omega.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:55:11 PM »

Actually my buddy was shooting the Omega. He never tried the BM3.

I'm shooting a Knight Disc Elite. I never even tried the BM3 at 100 yds. The best group I could get at 50 yds was 4 inches. Figured there wasn't much sense of moving out to 100 with that performance.

When I went back to 100 gr of loose T7, the next 3 holes were touching each other and the fourth was 1/2 an inch off.

hiker270 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2005, 02:50:14 PM »

Finally most of the snow is gone here in central Pennsylvania, so last saturday I took my TC Omega and a fresh pound of BM3, a pound of 777 and some Hornady 250gr. SST's, also some Dead Center 220gr. bullets.
These bullets have always shot around 1" groups with 110Gr. of 777 so I thought I'd try the new miracle powder. What a surprise- In no bullet or BM3 combination would this powder shoot any where near good as 777. I agree it is clean but definately did not deliver the accuracy 777 did. The other really annoying thing was BM3 would completely clog the hole in my breech plug after 2 shots. I even tried my extra breech plug (a new one) and it did the same thing. I spent more time removing the breech plug and cleaning than shooting. I finally went back to 777 powder, 220gr. Dead Center Bullet, Rem 209-4 primer and it was back to 1" groups and no problems with the breech plug. I would'nt mind trying other bullets with BM3, just to see if I could get it to shoot decent groups, but the breech plug problem was way to much of a pain. For my money I'll stay with 777.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2005, 05:23:43 PM »

Thanks for posting your results hiker. Glad to see I'm not the only one who had expanding groups with the BM3. I certainly had no plug problems, but I did experience similar accuracy results.

The stuff is clean, I'll give it that. But IMHO, in terms of accuracy, it's more trouble than it's worth - out of my rifle.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2005, 05:42:48 PM »

hiker270, thanks for the feedback.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:17:29 PM »

Hiker270: Just for interest sake and future reference; what rifle were you shooting and what primer? I have shot at least ten in a row in my Omega with no tendency for the breechplug to plug. Were you swabing between shots? If so with what; and how? I know people get good accuracy with 777 but in my rifle it is basically unusable due to the heavy crud ring it forms. Dry climate and Omega with 777 seems to be a bad combination. On the other hand I get good results and accuracy with Black Mag'3. I just got five pounds of Pinnacle and will get some of that through the rifle and hopefully the chronograph soon. Goex seems to be getting the product to market sooner than the Black Mag'3 and it is too early to see who is going to have the best price. I still had to order the Pinnacle and pay the hazmat fee (Bummer!).

hiker270 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:42:52 PM »

Hi Keith, In answer to your inquiry. My rifle is a 50 cal. Omega, Stainless Barrel, Composite stock w/ a Bushnell Elite 2x7 scope. I always run 1 spitpatch, 1 drypatch through the barrel between shots. Bullets tested were 220gr. Dead Center, 250gr Hornady SST. 209-4 Rem Primers. 110 Grains of BM3 and 777. I have shot this gun extensively for over 2 years and have never encountered the breech plug hole becoming clogged shut with either Pyrodex or 777, only occurred for first time when I tried BM3. I found out the hard way the first time it happened. After 3 shots the hole was so clogged I thought I would have to throw it away because I could'nt get it open. Soaked it overnight in Carb. cleaner and worked for probably 20 minutes with a stiff stainless steel wire to get it open. After that experience I would run the wire through after every shot, and could barely get it open. This happened with both my breech plugs. Switched back to 777 and the problem dissappeared. Groups @ 100Yds. with BM3 were 3-4", Groups with 777 were half that. Recoil with both powders seemed about the same, and the bullet impact on target was the same with both powders. BM3 was cleaner but 777 never seemed to pose a problem to me since I spitpatch between shots. The 209-4 primers have helped also. The BM3 powder (purchased @ Cabelas in Hamburg,Pa.) seems to be very fine, very small granules mixed with baby powder and I have myself believing that even though the breech plug hole is tiny that some of this very fine powder is finding its way inside and causing this problem-Thats just my guess. Either way the loss of accuracy is enough for me to stay with 777. Muzzleloaders can be quite finicky and what works for one may not work for another. I just got a fresh batch of bullets(250 SST, 240 Dead Center, 195 Gr Precision QT.) and I still have almost a full pound of BM3 so at first chance its back to the range for more testing. I'll Post the results. My Chrony died or I'd give some velocities.

Lane · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2005, 05:14:11 PM »

Keith

How much BM3 powder are you using ? And do you swab between shots?

Do you think that 110grns is causing the poor groups stated above? Maybe 80-90 grains.
I believe you said that BM3 is hotter than 777 according to your chrony.
What's your take on this difference in groupings?

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2005, 06:16:08 AM »

Hiker270/Lane: I will try my best to answer although I am really confused as I have a .50cal Stainless Omega (synthetic stock) and my results are almost the opposite of what Hiker270 is experiencing. My rifle has fewer shots down the barrel as I do not get to shoot as often as I like. I did do a 200 pass JB bore paste just to make loading a little easier and to verify that the barrel was really clean. I did find that 100gr. of BM3 and a 300gr. bullet in Harvester sabot makes about 2000fps. I backed down to 90gr. for my hunting load which by the way killed an elk at 100 yards with pass through the rib cage with 300gr. SST. It is possible that the 110 grain charge is too heavy although I usually find that the Omega will shoot best with fairly heavy charges. I do not shoot bullets that light so I can not comment on that. I have talked with a chemical rep for Magkor and he says they have not experienced any plug fouling and neither have I. I have used the stock breechplug with Winchester 209 primers and the .25ACP converison with Winchester standard small rifle primers and neither caused any fouling of the breechplug. I got slightly higher velocity with the 209 primer and Magkor agreed that hotter primers would probably give higher velocity. As far as recoil; the difference in recoil from my Omega with 100gr. of 777 and 100gr. of BM3 behind the 300gr. bullet was vastly different. I would not shoot more than four or five shots with the 777 load due to violent recoil. I would shoot 20 or more shots with the 100gr. load of BM3 as the felt recoil was much less sharp. I got higher velocity and less felt recoil with the BM3. The BM3 I have seems to be fairly fine but I do not see the very fine powder that Hiker270 refers to. I guess this might be a factor (will ask Magkor about this the next time we talk). I am not tied to Magkor but I have had conversations with several people there and they always seem to be helpful. So far I have not seen the loss of accuracy; however, I have only shot 300gr. bullets in Harvester sabots and Powerbelts with the Black Mag'3 powder. I know that the Magkor people have done a lot of shooting with Powerbelts and they perform extremely well for them. I guess this is another situation where the exact same rifles from the same manufacturer do not shoot the same. Personally I have a problem accepting that two Omegas will not shoot the same as T/C does not have much variation from rifle to rifle. I suspect other variables may be acting here that we have not found yet. I just thought of another thing to consider; what is the shape of the front of your breechplug? I have all three configurations and the ones I use are the slightly concave face which I think is what they now supply with the Omega. My first one that came was totally flat and then there was the totally concave on and finally the partially concave with a flat ring around the outer circumference which by the way is the shape of the .25ACP conversion.

NimrodRx · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2005, 03:54:22 PM »

For what it's worth, this is the fourth guy that I have seen post results of compromised groups with BM3. I have seen two guys post results of equal BM3 groups to 777. I have yet to see a post claiming superior groups with BM3.

Keith brings up a good point about all rifles behaving differently. I typically shoot 100 gr of ffg 777 through my 50 cal. The first time I put 100 gr of BM3 in it, I thought I had a hold of a different rifle. The recoil was much more violent with the BM3. I'm sure I was getting more velocity, but it was at the expense of accuracy and recoil.

Just one bone head's opinion.... :-)