Sporter airgun records?

[nomad]

Since one of the sore points that has come out of the revision in sporter rules is that the records set with springers will likely be soon erased as people shoot pcp guns in what is now an easier class, does it make sense to petition NRA to 'cap' the old records and begin again? (I don't think that anyone will disagree that people holding springer records are getting a bad deal if their marks are erased by someone shooting a pcp gun?)

I talked with GC this am and he tells me that that can be done. It requires the agreement of the committee and the old records will no longer be published but anyone holding one will have the satisfaction of knowing that THAT record will never be eclipsed. There will be new records set but they won't break the old ones. It will only be a personal satisfaction sort of thing but it does point out the difference...

(I don't know -- didn't think to ask -- if this would be retroactive so that records set this year between the rule change and the committee meeting would fall into the 'new' category.)

Would this be worth pursuing or is it just turning more molehills into mountains?

[scorlett]

Yes, I think it should probably be done. But I really think it is ludicrous to give up on a true “sporter” air rifle class without an attempt to get the rules put back together. It seems a very unfortunate mistake, which should be corrected.

I know I’m a fairly new comer to the competition scene and haven’t been through some of the going’s on of the last 10-15 years, but I feel that this rule is definitely injurious to the sport. A sport that seems hard enough to attract folks to as it is, or rather was.

I got my introduction to silhouette, indeed to any type of target shooting, a few years ago via the Sporter air rifle class. I brought out my under $200 rifle, had a blast and was hooked. If all the good shooters there shooting $1000 rifles at the time, I would have just gone back home and plinked in my back yard, figuring this was not for me. (Of course I do have some $1000 rifles now, but it took a couple of years to get the hook set that deep!)

Sorry about my soapbox stand, I know these arguments have all been heard numerous times, but it just makes no sense to have the Sporter class if it’s not for sport air rifles.

Sam

[nomad]

According to GC, the rule is not likely to be reversed.

If you were able to make that call, what would you -- in fairness to all -- tell the people who have already committed to equipment for the 'new' version?
(I think that something like: "Too bad! You should have known that we'd reverse ourselves." would lead to even more shooter alienation than we have now.)

[dave imas]

so...  just because it begs the question...

many highpower hunter records were set with the .308 before the.708 or the 260 Rem were legal cartridges for hunter.  although similar to the pcp advantages over the spring gun, lower recoil, higher muzzle velocities, and better ballistics, i don't remember hearing anyone scream when these cartridges were introduced.  people just retooled.

now that we have vld bullets, should we consider the same for highpower records?  the vld bullets also allow lower recoil, higher muzzle velocities, and better ballistics.

now that we have changed the rules dramatically for hunter guns and are using significantly different equipment should we should we do the same for hunter rifle records?

since they were deemed illegal, should we erase any records previously set with a chin gun?

i think we are chasing mice nuts.
dave imas

[9inarow]

Would have to agree with Nomad about the folks that have all ready committed to the new criteria.  SB/HP hunter has gone thru some changes (to say the least).  Over the last year or so a fair number of folks picked up a 1712 w/2 stage trigger (or had trigger work done to they 1710 turning them into effective 2 stage triggers), myself included.  Picked up a “out of the box” 1712 with fiberglass stock to meet the then current rules, only to have them changed recently so the hunter class is pretty wide open with aftermarket stocks, barrels, triggers, etc, etc, etc.  From what I have seen at the matches, the folks using the latest equipment (in general) are the shooter’s very involved in the sport and are quite proficient.  Basically if you gave them a sling shot they would out shoot me as an average shooter.  As for myself, I could go out and “trick” up the rifle, and it might buy a couple more targets.  Not sure its worth the effort, so will keep using the rifle as-is and stay in my AA classification. So the same argument for “freezing” the SB/HP hunter records prior to the new hunter gun spec’s could be made.

As for how the rule change, I would agree it was poorly thought through, especially with no input from the shooting community.  But, with all the rule changes that occur, don’t think an * by the record should be done to reflect the change in equipment rules.

[nomad]

Dave,

I don't agree about the caliber/bullet changes...those improvements were brought about by learning and development, they didn't come by fiat from above.

But you do have a valid point about hunter rifle and chin gun changes. Those did come from the committee.

I don't know. I have no records to worry over (they don't give records for lowest scores!) and am just tumbling things around to see what can/should be done to leave the least amount of sourness behind this one. That's why I'm asking for input and why I told GC that, after I'd asked, I'd pass on what I hear.

[dave imas]

You Sir, are a statesman politic.  I am humbled by your selfless endeavors and service to our community.  You are doing Yeoman's duty Sir.  Yeoman's duty.  Proud to have you among us.  See you in a couple of weeks.
dave

[nomad]

David,

You have no idea how much it brightens my otherwise dark and dreadful day when I realize that someone, somewhere (even in the wilderness that is Olympia) recognizes my true inner goodness.
I'm so HAPPY that you, at least, don't believe all the things those terrible people say! (They're just envious because -- UNLIKE ME -- they haven't heard the CALLING!)

You do know don't you that, very soon, I'm going to be standing close to you for several days with a loaded gun in my hands...?  :twisted:

[Hornetx60]

I wouldn't cap the records but putting an asterisk beside any new records would differentiate from the prior ones

[scorlett]

If you were able to make that call, what would you -- in fairness to all -- tell the people who have already committed to equipment for the 'new' version?

I don't think that's a valid argument. I know lot's of folks (including myself) that have recently purchased spring guns expressly for shooting in the sporter class. Then comes this rule change with no warning or discussion. I understand they are still legal, but certainly not the most desireable. (at least the outfit I work for goes through a process of "proposed rule making" to gather comments and give folks warning that they are going to get shafted)

I know it's probably just pissin' in the wind... But I think rules that are the best for the sport should be given precedence. A mistake recognized and uncorrected is a bigger mistake.

Ernie, I do appreciate your involvement, thanks! Now, I'll go back to keeping quiet.

Sam

[nomad]

Sam,

With 20K hours, I know all about how much the Federation for the Abolition of Aviation pays attention to comments gathered during NPRMs. If we put a requirement for NPRMs into silhouette, we need to make certain that it isn't treated the same way and that it's binding on the committee decisions!