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Offline S.S.

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« on: April 05, 2005, 07:08:56 AM »
U.S. to Tighten Border Controls by 2008

29 minutes ago   White House - AP Cabinet & State
 

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday.


AP Photo
 
   

Similarly, Canadians will also have to present a passport to enter the United States, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity. Canadians have been the only foreigners allowed to enter the United States with just a driver's license.


An announcement, expected later Tuesday at the State Department, will specify that a passport or another valid travel document will have to be shown by U.S. citizens, the officials said.


These include a document called Sentri that is used for Mexico travel or a Nexus for Canada travel.


Until now, Americans returning home from Canada have needed only to show a driver's license or other government-issued photo identification card.


Americans returning from Mexico, Panama or Bermuda currently need only a government-issued photo identification card plus proof of U.S. citizenship like an original birth or naturalization certificate, according to the State Department's Web site.


The new rules, to be phased in by Jan. 1, 2008, were called for in intelligence legislation approved last year by Congress.


Safeguarding U.S. borders are a top concern of U.S. intelligence and security officials. The concern increased after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and on the Pentagon.


The travel industry has raised concerns that the changes might hamper tourism, one official said.


The announcement follows a three-way summit last month that President Bush held with Prime Minister Paul Martin of Canada and President Vicente Fox of Mexico.


Speaking at Baylor University at Waco, Tex., Bush said border controls with Mexico had to be tightened to make sure that terrorists, drug runners, gun runners and smugglers do not enter the United States.


Besides a passport, re-entering Americans could use another approved travel document like frequent travel cards, which are issued to some people who travel often between the U.S. and Mexico. These cards typically are used to avoid long border-crossing lines.


But in most cases, only passports will do, another U.S. official said.


The new system will deal first with the Caribbean, then Mexico and Canada. It will start at airports and subsequently spread to land crossings, said an official speaking on condition of anonymity.


U.S. inspectors will bear less of a burden with the changes because they won't have to sift through different kinds of travel documents, the officials said.


___


Associated Press reporters George Gedda and Lara Jakes Jordan contributed to this report.
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Offline Mikey

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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 05:41:06 AM »
Eh?  Gee Sam, this means I'll have to take my passport with me just to go get a few cold Canadian brewskis (lol).  Mikey.

Offline Jack Crevalle

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Re: ITS ABOUT TIME !!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 06:54:53 AM »
Quote from: S.Sumner
WASHINGTON - Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama and Bermuda by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday.


Meanwhile drug dealers, terrorists and all manner of other criminals walk across the southern border.

Offline PA-Joe

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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 07:00:25 AM »
I am not so certain that this is a good thing. It is taking my right to freely cross the Canadian Border. There is also a big cost for getting a passport.

This is also one step closer to a National ID Card!

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 12:18:07 PM »
Its not going to stop the flow of automatic weapons comming over the Mexican border on the donkie's backs with the bad guys who we maybe facing soon here in the US.  With the 6,000 known bad guys already here they must have an army of 10,000 here by now and maybe more.  Were closing the wrong barn door!!!!!!!                            BigBill

Just give me a jeep with a 50cal w/night vision and i'll stop those SOB's from crossing the border!!!!   We have deployed the "MinuteMen" on the mexican boder recently and i hope they have 50's.

Offline james

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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 05:32:12 PM »
I'm thinking this will hamper a road trip from Montana to Alaska for a moose and caribou hunt.  I like to get lost in the woods where I don't have to put up with "do this, don't do that. Can't you read the sign?". Its getting harder all the time.  I understand why the mountain men, trappers and buffalo hunters of the past had a hard time conforming to the "modern society".  Laws that sound like a good idea to one person may be unbearable to another.  What happened to "by the people, for the people" laws.  Guess I'm getting grumpy in my old age.
james

Offline Rick Teal

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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 08:57:44 PM »
A month ago, we were told our countries were looking at a Euromart type of open border, and now this.  I understand our government will probably retaliate and require you to have passports to enter Canada as well.

I wish these clowns in government would get their acts straight.
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Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 01:47:00 AM »
Quote from: Rick Teal
A month ago, we were told our countries were looking at a Euromart type of open border, and now this.  I understand our government will probably retaliate and require you to have passports to enter Canada as well.

I wish these clowns in government would get their acts straight.


Yeah, that I'll show us. Just like the restrictive Canadian gun laws have helped the hunting industry there by detering US hunters.

Offline S.S.

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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2005, 06:16:08 AM »
I simply think that the U.S. has had wide open Borders
for far too long. However, I think that
Bigbill is right. Most of our problem comes from the South
and not the North. I would not have a problem with Canada
requireing Americans to have passports, I think that in this
day in age it would be prudent on their part.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 09:44:46 AM »
S.Sumner; Your right too about the northern border because the terrorists that did 9/11 came into the Us from Canada and stayed in southern Maine for a while were i visit often.  There was a story about them in a local news paper when i was there once after it happened.  Those guys will try anything to get into this country.  Maybe once there here the'll see how awesome it is just to have some FREEDOM and not to worry about when the next bullet or swinging sword will have your head on it and just maybe they won't do us any harm.   Maybe they will switch sides I doubt it but there's hope?                      BigBill

Offline kevin.303

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 03:33:21 PM »
if i was an American ( and with our gun laws that might soon be a reality) i would be a lot more worried about the Mexican border then the Canadian line.this is a real PITA, i was gonna go to Cabelas this summer but now i'll have to renew my passport. although it's not a major inconvience for me at the moment, i could see how this would irritate cross border truckers.
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline kombi1976

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 06:32:20 PM »
The USA has need to tighten up borders for a long time.
But I don't think MinuteMen armed with nightvision equipped 50 cals are going to solve anything.
The guys who are running guns & drugs across the Mexican border already have a comfortable foothold in the US.
Otherwise they wouldn't be getting away with it.
The people coming across the US/Mexican border at the moment for the most part are illegal immigrants.
Anyhow, the MinuteMenProject cites itself as a "call to voices, not a call to arms".......at least for the moment.
8)

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Offline mt3030

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2005, 08:28:27 PM »
Living in central Montana, my wife and I travel to Canada often to enjoy motorcycling and visiting friends. We have a lot of good friends up there and have always enjoyed the warm welcome by Canadians. I had never thought of the open border of being an issue until 9/11. But when the Canadian government stated they would not assist the US by increasing security on their side of the border, I was amazed. If needing passports inconveniences anyone, or hurts anyones economy, so be it. People on both sides of the border will adjust and survive. The various responses from other governments showed who the US could depend on in a crisis. (In fact, Israel even offered the send and man radar drone planes to assist in securing air traffic.) I'm just surprised and disappointed it took us this long to take this obvious step. And on the Southern border.......I'm not even going there!!!
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Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2005, 04:22:19 AM »
:evil: :twisted: kombi1976, You are partially correct in your assumption that a large number of those crossing the borders are illegal immigrants?  Yes anyone who comes to my country,  or your country, without proper documentation is an illegal immigrant.

The point is, illegal immigrants are as much a threat to this country as any terrorist group.  The economical impact to provide services, medical attention, jail space, education, etc is so great it is placing a large burden on the legal taxpaying citizens of this country.

Its a known fact that many of the countries south of the US border are releasing inmates from prison and paying them to come to America.  This is due, in part, to the same situation here, the jails are overcrowded and to make space for "new arrivals" they are releasing prisoners to solve the problem.  This creates  another problem, more criminals, increased crime, and increased taxes to combat the problem.

They are crossing so fast that ALL AMERICANS will have to learn spanish to survive.  We currently have an estimated 20 million spanish speaking illegal immigrants in the USA, this coupled with an estimated 60 million legal immigrants will grow to a majority in the near future.

Often these people come to this country looking for a better life.  Many adapt and make a useful contribution to the well being of America, but the majority tend to settle together and maintain their homeland cultures which helps keep them in a simular status as that they are fleeing.  They do not jump in the "mixing pot" and join mainstream America, but hang on to their ties to the homeland, and continue that way of life.

America will not come to it's knees from the terrorist threat, but the economical impact and sheer number of immigrants may lead to Mr. Fox having a say on how this country goes. ( You do know he is thinking of suing America in the World Court due to the "MinuteMenProject.  If this happens, I think the attitude of a lot of Americans will change towards our "friends" from the south.  Maybe next April we can all meet in Tombestone and assist in the project and point out to Mr. Fox that he does not run this country. (and doesn't do a very good job with the one he has.)

This is a sore subject with me, but nuff said, Go to "Tombestonetumbleweed.com" click of "Borderline" and learn more.

Offline kevin.303

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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2005, 03:25:20 PM »
Quote from: mt3030
I had never thought of the open border of being an issue until 9/11. But when the Canadian government stated they would not assist the US by increasing security on their side of the border, I was amazed.


i never knew that. quite surprising, but then again nothing the liberals do surprises me anymore. :x
" oh we didn't sink the bismarck, and we didn't fight at all, we spent our time in Norfolk and we really had a ball. chasing after women while our ship was overhauled, living it up on grapefruit juice and sick bay alcohol"

Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2005, 10:02:44 PM »
Quote from: kombi1976
The USA has need to tighten up borders for a long time.
But I don't think MinuteMen armed with nightvision equipped 50 cals are going to solve anything.
.


Last count I saw was 118 stopped and that was almost two days ago.

I saw one of their organizers on TV and he said that on the part of the border they are now patrolling that the government had previously stopped Syrians and some other middle eastern types I cannot recall, trying to sneak across. He said that tidbit never made the MSM (I guess these were just the typical down trodden trying to reach a better life to the MSM).

If all they do is force the government to face up to it's responsibilty and spend money to stop this invasion instead of on such un-constitutional crap as trying to social-engineer it's citizenry then the MinuteMan project is a success.

Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2005, 02:28:22 AM »
I think its time to close our borders like as tight as a frogs @ss let no one in because we don't need anymore people here to become american citizens it needs to be stopped we are just too easy!!!!  Lets face it our goverment isn't doing its job, while we are trying to free the rest of the world we leave the barn door open here on our borders.  Thank God we have the minutemen doing something because without them it would still be going on, and on, and on, and on like it has for many years.  We give these mexicans citizenship and the get social security right away.

 OT; I know of one Portugese woman who came here and never worked a day in her life here and got social security disability and returned to Portugal and is getting SS checks. So whats wrong with the SS system Da???  If you never work to put $$ into it you shouldn't ever recieve any $$ from it!!!!!!  We need to rethink, redo the system so it works and keep the greedy politicians from touching our retirement!!!!  Telling us to get an IRA isn't the answer either!!!!!  IRA's suck i have one and if I take any $$ out now which i can i get taxed to death for it so our goverment makes out even better again so the answer isn't get an IRA either.   Our goverment looks out for the rest of the world while our poor here starve too thats not right we need to take care of our own people in our backyard first!!!                                                 BigBill

Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2005, 03:26:44 AM »
I don't mind people coming here legally that is what made this country great and why we had a disproportionate number of the worlds greatest minds just prior to WWII.

Ted Kennedy and his ilk changed all that though. Now instead of giving a preference to people who bring something to the table we have the likes of the Chinese who give printed instructions to people on how to go to the US and get on welfare.

At my work we were trying to hire someone who was one of the best workers there but we couldn't because he didn't have US citizenship. He was there legally and watched as illegals got to jump the line ahead of him when AlGore and Bill Clinton wanted votes from their relatives. Many of those who got citizenship that way it later turned out had criminal records in their country of origin. It made me sick to see this hardworking guy get screwed this way.

Offline kombi1976

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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2005, 03:37:11 AM »
Quote from: rockbilly
Its a known fact that many of the countries south of the US border are releasing inmates from prison and paying them to come to America.  This is due, in part, to the same situation here, the jails are overcrowded and to make space for "new arrivals" they are releasing prisoners to solve the problem.  This creates  another problem, more criminals, increased crime, and increased taxes to combat the problem.


I confess, I was not aware of this.
Perhaps less money spent in Iraq and more in our homelands would solve the problems.
If that hit a raw nerve I apologise.
It isn't meant to devalue the hard work many servicemen and women have done there and I have nothing but the highest respect for them.
But Big Bill is right.
First World countries do need to stop believing "We know what's best for everyone" and fix the problems they have at home.  :?
Australia has similar problems in that way.
Just a querie, rockbilly, what is the estimated total US population at the moment? :|
8)

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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2005, 11:31:42 AM »
The more I think about it the more upset i get about it.  What is the homeland security people doing if both our borders are unprotected but mainly our southern border is wide open for any dirt bag to enter our country?  You mean it takes the minutemen to step in and do the job that should of been done a longtime ago by our great goverment like who is BSing who? I think our borders should of been tighter than a frogs @ss (water tight) along time ago.  A few years back we couldn't find the 6K of known bad guys that we knew were here and who knows how many are here by now.  They said on the net today these dirt bags are trying to buy a nuke bomb too which is old news and  I would think they already have them here too since russia has said there not sure how many suitcase nuke dirty bombs their missing already.  I think its time to stock pile food and water too just incase we live thru it.  But the way it sounds it seems to be comming for sure.  I have no clue why we don't shutdown our country by locking the borders and gather up these missing bad guys and toss them out of our country.  I think its long over due that we need to change our policy because the one we have in place just isn't working before its too late.   BigBill

We just spent here in the northeast 16 million dollars for a mock disaster test and we found out the samething that 9/11 showed us that didn't work radio's and communication between everyone involved just like 9/11 did too so we haven't learned anything yet nor changed anything.  What are we doing????  Are we being scared on purpose to the point we will never besafe again?  Does our goverment want us to be on the edge all the time are we sheep waiting for the wolf?  I just don't know who to believe anymore, like who is telling us the truth or who is lying to us?  Should we dig in and get ready because the big one is comming soon.  I just don't know anymore who to believe but it sure makes me wonder.

Offline kombi1976

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« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2005, 07:46:14 PM »
Well, I hate to say it but our civilisation does hang on a thread....every second of every day it's a complete miracle that you can either attribute to good fortune or, as I believe, God's will.
The truth is that while tightening borders is an totally excellent and necessary start that the problem is insurmountable in the long term.
But don't get me wrong.
It's a bit like learning to shoot well.
You know that you will never be perfect because of all the variables but nonetheless we keep practising and trying to make ourselves as good as we can be.
And as you've said, Bill, none of our governments are making that effort for public safety and border control.
I'm an advocate for controlled immigration but not for free reign.
Fortunately here in Australia we have thousand of miles of ocean filled with strong currents and dangerous reefs.
Furthermore most of the time our airports are also pretty tight.
We've even succeeded in preventing such animal diseases as rabies out of Australia.
But you guys are doing it tough.
8)

Cheers & God Bless

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Offline 1911crazy

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« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2005, 04:18:09 PM »
NEWS FLASH!!!!!!  UPDATE!!!!!!

The news today said that other states are so impressed with the job the minutemen are doing that they are looking at doing the samething on their borders too.  It sure sounds like this is catching on down south.  I have a feeling that the minutemen just may catch on across our great land to protect our country.  I think we can all do something somewhere to fill in the gaps.  I think its a great idea that our state goverments on a local level to see that citizens are able to stand up and help out and do whats right to protect our country.  I have a funny feeling this minuteman thing is going to grow much bigger than they think.  There isn't enough local LEO's go around to protect us all lets face it if the SHTF they will need every able body to help out if it gets really bad.  I hope it never comes to that but its good to have all your ducks in a row ahead of time and have a plan if your needed and it does go down.  I hope someone see's the light soon here.                                        BigBill

Offline Jack Crevalle

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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2005, 01:27:19 AM »
Quote from: BigBill

The news today said that other states are so impressed with the job the minutemen are doing that they are looking at doing the samething on their borders too.  


Not surprising since the border states bear the burden of most of this "cheap" labor by educating their children, treating their illnesses and fighting the crime they create. All without a dime from the G who is the root of the problem.

Is some cases, like California, they get what they deserve to some extent by fighting laws to deny services to illegals.

Offline DanielWGriggs

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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2005, 08:31:40 AM »
I'd like to help secure the borders. I have an 8mm Mauser and a couple hundered rounds to scare em back to the other side of the border. Just to keep this dealing with mil surps.

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2005, 01:32:16 AM »
Folks, I believe the self appointed job of the Minutemen is to OBSERVE, not chase them back across the border.  

DanielW, I can understand how strongly you feel but unless we are at war and manning our borders against enemy troops, that old 8mm and a couple of hundred rounds of ammo probably won't do much except get you landed in jail.

This is one heck of a testy subject and before it gets any testier I am going to put in my honest two cents worth.  

Here it goes - this is the Mil-Surp forum and this topic belongs either in the 2nd Amendment and Political Discussion forum or in the Round the Ole Pot-bellied Stove forum and that's where it's going to go if this heats up much more.  

I strongly agree on safeguarding our international borders, just as I agree strongly on dividing upstate and New York City into two separate states.  I also agree that we should not let people from New Jersey or other non-gun friendly states have open access to our freedoms, unless they want to join in.  All of this is just one of the reasons I own firearms.

In the interim however, let's please try to table the elements of this discussion that refer to the more violent aspects of the issue and see if we can't focus on something a bit more constructive.  Mikey.

Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2005, 05:06:02 PM »
:x We can all do something about the border situation, take a few minutes and write your congressmen and let them know your views.

I just read today, that El Presidente Jorge Boosh, and his number-one squeeze Ms condescending Rice both stated to Mr. Fox in a recent meeting that they were opposed to the Minuteman Project and that they were a bunch of misfits.  What Jorge doesn't realize is most of the folks out there on the border watching for the bad guys are former or retired LEO, military, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc.  These are the people that put him in office, the people that keep this country going.  

I have written to all of my congressmen, only problem, Jorge has all of them in his back pocket.

Somehow I think there is a Fox hiding in the Bush................
 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll: