Navy Pedersoli sxs shotgun

[se-okla.shooter]

I bought a 12 ga. Navy Pedersoli sxs shotgun at the Tulsa Gun Show. It in great shape and I paid $250 for it.  I don't know a lot about shotguns can someone tell me the purpose of the bead in the middle of the barrel? thanks Guy SE Okla. :?

[roundball]

I bought a 12 ga. Navy Pedersoli sxs shotgun at the Tulsa Gun Show. It in great shape and I paid $250 for it.  I don't know a lot about shotguns can someone tell me the purpose of the bead in the middle of the barrel? thanks Guy SE Okla. :?

Dual beads are fairly common on shotguns...since there's no rear sight as a second reference point, the middle bead is there to force you to remember to get your head all the way down.

Sighted correctly, you should "see" only one bead, or depending on the types of beads, a figure 8 (one bead atop the other).

But basically it's to get your head down where it should be so you're sighting straight down the rib...otherwise there's a tendency to have our heads too high, looking "downward on top" of the barrel, and we'll shoot high

[crow_feather]

Nice answer

C F

[KING]

:-D   Just wait until you ask for loading advice.  That we can give you in abundance..I use 110 2f,over powder wad,felt wad(equal to powder colum,and 1.250 to 1.50 oz of shot with a shot wad on top of that  Mine really likes 7.5 and 9s which is good cause I like to hunt grouse and woodcock with it(so far grouse have been safe).  Bunnies have been known to get nervouse on occasion if the snow is a little deep.  Good luck and dot forget to tamp the live charge down after shooting the other bbl to be on the safe side(after removing the cap).  Bbl that has not been shot,sometimes the charge will creep foreward a little due to recoil of the first round.   stay safe........King

[fffffg]

i bought a pedersoli from cabellas and here are the loading results from that book they sent with the gun.. ..  12 guage percussion,=  92 grains ffg,   .135" nitro card (12 ga diameter) , ..........1/4 inch filler(i use 1/2 inch thick  fiber wad 12 ga)........  1 1/8 ounce up to 1 1/4 ounce shot........over shot card..   10 guage is shown to use 110 grains 2fg and  1 1/4-to  1 1/2ounce shot.. .. have fun with your new black powder gun..   if you have the old  t and t youve gotten an extreemly good deal in my estimation.. these were full and full choke..  t and t stands for turkey and trap..  if you have full choke you will need to  bend the nitro card  slightly to get it down past the choke, then use two wool felt 1/8 inch  lubed wads over nitro card, then shot.. over shot card.. ,.. thompson center makes the lubed felt wads.     the fiber wad will not go by the full  chokes..  if they are cylinder bores you can use the fiber wads instead of the wool felt wads with better success... i always use some kind of lube in my shotguns.  tc yellow lube in the tube works great in summer and winter.  its alreadon on the tc wool felt wads, and if using fiber wads on smooth bore i put a large glob of tc lube between the fiber wad and the nitro card..  it makes loading easier and gives better patterns and keeps bore clean so it helps resist pitting on long damp hunting days.. dave..

[se-okla.shooter]

:grin: I don't know how old it is. On the barrels it has NAVY ARMS CO,INC. RIDGEFIELD N.J. 12 GA below that all in caps pedersoli black powder only below pedersoli is odd symbol with dav in the middle. Below the black powder is made in italy and below that the number ser.#125**
It has a Pachmayr recoil pad that looks about as old as the gun. The only odd thing about the gun is the screws in the lock go in from the right I think all the rest of my guns the screws go in from the left.  Does anybody have a good load for turkey using #6 shot. thanks Guy SE Okla

[se-okla.shooter]

:oops: I forgot to say I don't have a gauge but a dime will fit in the muzzle. Guy SE Okla

[ribbonstone]

That one is probably in the late 1970's or early 1980's. Some place on that barrel (under the breech area) will be a rectangle and two letters...if it's as old as I think, then it will be Roman mumerals (like XXV or XVIII). Find that mark, and I'll convert it to the born-on-date.

Have a 10ga. version much like your 12..Navy Arms, mine from the middle 1980's.  Under that breech should be a max. load recommendation...So much shot/ so much powder.  For the 10ga. it's 1 1/2oz and 109gr, so i assume the 12ga. is going to be a little less.

HAve to cross check some older catalogues, but this 10ga. dows have a slight choke...not all that important, nice even patterns are more valuable than a few points of choke.

If you have to have tight choke, going to have to work on the loadinging process...I don't like the chusion part of one-piece shot loads, but do find the shot cup (the part that contains the shot) does help...and if you can stand the slight reduction in shot weight, the steel plastic works a bit better.


To get that kind of choke, will load powder, 1/8" card wad, 1/2" flet wad (lubed), the shot cup (with out the collapsable section), and a 1/16" over shot wad.  IF the shot cut is too long for the shot charge (and it will be) will shorten the cup from the front to my desired length.

Normally I don't bother...just load it with wads and shot like a BP gun SHOULD be, and go hunting.

[Good time Charlie]

I have a Navy Arms 12 sxs. But mine is made by FILLPIETTA. It has a seral number of 10882. I think it is pretty old or has been handled rough. The guy I bought it from said it was in good shape. It was not! It took me about a weeks work to get it shooting ok.
                                        Good Time Charlie

[se-okla.shooter]

:? Under the left barrel near the breach it has 183 PN some kind proof mark on the breach plug same same mark PN On the right barrel it has KG 1370 283 a box with AD in it then PN proof mark on the breach plug proof mark Pn Does this tell you anything? Guy SE Okla

[ribbonstone]

PN is the black powder proof...the AD is the born or date (in code)...makes it 1978.

It's an odd sytem of numbers and letter codes...and to complicate matters, they tend to skip what seems to be random letters, but AD (usually ion a box outline) = 1978.

These are good solid guns...and looking though Lyman's Blackpowder Handbook does show some 1 1/2 oz  102gr. loads for the 12ga.  Wihtout any max. load data on the barrels, would havde to give Pedersoli a email and see what their max. recommendation (or a major Pedersoli dealer).

Not sure...thought Navy Arms sold Pedersoil doubles, but there should be a stamp...either a DAP or a DP (or dp) for Pedersoli.  Pietta should use a FAP (usually in a diamond outline)...on your own for the spanish made copies.

[se-okla.shooter]

Read my preveious post it has pedersoli on top of the barrel. Does that not make it a Pedersoli? Thanks Guy

[ribbonstone]

Going to have to write this down before it gets lost in the clutter of my head.  IF anyone spots an error, or has some additional information, feel free to post updates.
 
 Using Roman Numerials, starting with 1954 as 'X'.
 
 X = 1954
 XI = 1955
 XII = 1956
 XIII = 1957
 XIV = 1958
 XV = 1959
 XVI = 1960
 XVII = 1961
 XVIII= 1962
 XIX = 1963
 XX = 1964
 ...continues without skipping until
 
 XXVI = 1970
 
 Then, for some reason not really explained, they switched to:
 XX7 = 1971
 XX8 = 1972
 XX9 = 1973
 
 Then back to:
 XXX = 1974
 
 Then it chages to a letter code. Should be simple, but they skipped various letters throughout the "A" code, then decided to skip OTHER letters through out the "B" code. Didn't want to make it too easy I guess.
 
 AA=1975
 AB=1976
 AC=1977
 AD=1978
 AE=1979
 AF=1980
 AH=1981 (notice they skip AG)
 AI=1982
 AL=1983 (skipped AJ and AK)
 AM=1984
 AN=1985
 AP=1986 (skipping AO)
 AS=1987 (skiping AQ and AR)
 AT=1988
 AU=1989
 AZ=1990 (skipping AV,AW,AX, and AY)
 
 BA=1991
 BB=1992
 BC=1993
 BD=1994
 BF=1995 (skipping BE)
 BH=1996 (skipping BG)
 BI=1997
 BL=1998 (skipping BJ and BK)
 BM=1999
 BN=2000
 BP=2001 (skipping BO)
 BS=2002
 BT=2003
 BU=2004
 
 Do not know how the letter code continues...or why they selected the letters to skip.
 
 There will be proof marks (usually two). One of them will be a PN marking...this is a black powder proof. Have had people show that to me and claim that their gun is nitro proofed (thinking PN is for Proof Nitro)..it is not...that's a black powder proof.
 
 Will USUALLY be a maker's stamp...but not always. In the early years, was common to have whoever improrted the gun supply whatever stamps they wanted..Navy Arms, Replica Arms, Sile, CVA, etc. But it all boils doen to a few makers. Common ones are: (aside from writting the company name out):
 
 Pedersoli usually uses "DAP" or "dp".
 
 Uberti usualy uses a "U" surroumded by an octogon outline...the octogon to represent a barrel outline.
 
 Pietta Usually uses a "FAP" in a horizontal diamond outline.
 
 Palmetto (who made a lot of Dixie Gun Works reproductions) uses a palm tree in a circle.
 
 Armi San Paolo uses a DGG..this is also found on EuroArms (as they are more or less the same maker now). Often hard to figure out as they overlap the DGG.
 
 Armi Sport will usually use a "AC" in a circle.
 
 How Beretta will or has changed this I do not know, but they do seem to be buying up or joining a lot of BP production.
 
 The Colt first and second generation guns were made in Italy as well...but only as rough parts, the fix and finish by Colt, so only Colt's marking are on the guns.
 -------
 Just wanted to get this on-site so I can stop hunting up the written copy whenever it comes up as a question on-line.

[crow_feather]

If it helps, my Perersoli 10 guage shows 1 1/2 oz and 109 grains of powder as max.  It is printed underneath the barrels.  


That's some good info above this post

C F

[ribbonstone]

Think in terms of "drams"...
3drams = 82gr.
3 1/8 = 85gr.
3 1/4 = 89gr.
3 1/2 = 96gr.
3 3/4 = 103gr.
(and that's a good place to call maximum  with a 12ga.       using 1 1/4 oz. of shot)
4 = 109gr.

So the 10ga. are "maxed" with that 4dram 1 1/2oz of shot loading.  The twelve would be closer to 3 1/2 or 3 3/4 dram and 1 1/4 oz. of shot.  Most old charts show  3 1/2 dram (96 gr.) as a "Heavy" load. Lyamn goes to 103gr. (close enough to 3 3/4 dram) in their black powder data... split the difference for a nice round 100gr. as the max.  Lyman goes to 1 1/2oz. fo shot...the old charts stopped with 1 1/4 oz....again, split the differnce and call 1 3/8oz. max.

But shot weight kind of varies...using a measure that holds 103gr. of powder, will get a bit more shot weight with the small sized shot (packs better..less air space) than with large shot (like #2's).

In real,life, most of the time you don't need to load to the max...do you need 3 1/2" mag. shells to shoot doves with a  modern shotgun?  Same idea...most of the time, can get it done with 75gr. of FFg and 1oz. of shot.
--------
May as well metnion it...will still find dram equivilant numbers on modern shot shells. Those equililant numbers have nothing to do with the weight of smokeless powder being used...it's just a comparison number in today's world, divorced from it's black powder roots.

[1860]

Ribbonstone,

Thanks for the date info, I printed it out.

I have a newer SxS with the choke tubes.   A little tougher to load but much more versitile.  My max is 90grs and with a ball/cylinder choke in one side and buckshot/full in the other, it's real nasty on close range deer.

60

[ribbonstone]

Actually, depending on the sourse, the dram equivialnt in grians can vary a couple of grains from that chart, but black powder if pretty friendly about such small variations.

Another good place to mention the use of Fg or FFG rather than finer granulations...in the 10ga. and some work with 12ga. tend to use Fg in the heavy charges.

Will sometimes load as low as 50gr. FFg and 3/4 oz of shot (at least in one barrel). That's about as low as I can go and still have a decent short range patern.

Know you already know this, but for safety's sake:
Do check the unfired barrel if there is time after the first shot..this esp. needed when firing the heavy loads that develop more recoil.  That first barrel is doing a fair imitation of an inertia bullet puller.

Do uncap that loaded barrel (if you only fired once) when you need to reload the other barrel.

That cap-removing is troublesome.  Do use tight fitting caps and nipples in good conditon.Had a freind (using an origianl) get both barrels at one trigger pull. First thought was that the second hammer failed (even though he does NOT cock both hammers at once).  Nope, second hammer was still at 1/2 cock.  What evidently happened was a combination of excessive blow back from an old worn nipple and a loose cap on the other barrel...flame ejecting from the fired barrel found it's way either into the cap to fire it...or blew the cap off the other barrel and found it's way down the nipple.

[WD45]

If it is the old small light fowler from the 70's you will know why that recoil pad was on there.  :shock:
Thought I needed xrays after a couple of max loads  :-D
I added a little weight in the stock too...

like was already said .. you dont need a 3 1/2 dram load to kill tree rats and rabbits

[crow_feather]

I shoot 80 grs 2f with equal volume shot in my 10 guage and it shoots very well.  I take it into the fields for clay bird shooting.  The hard part is finding all those little pieces of broken clay bird so I can pick them up and throw them away.  TREAD LIGHTLY!

C F