Author Topic: .270win or .30-30 for black bear? (Read 2266 times)

SeaBass · « **on:** October 23, 2004, 06:54:18 PM »

Most shot opportunities would be <100 yds. The guns are a win 94 with stock open sights and a weatherby vanguard with a 4-16x40ao scope.

I'm quite handy with the .30-30 but I think the .270 has alot more energy and would extend my range if needed.

What would be your load recommendations and range limitations for each?

I handload for the .30-30 so cast loads would be an option as well.

Thanks.

Gowge · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2004, 08:05:24 PM »

Read all the way thru this article and note the load that delivered a 180gr Cast Bullet @ 2550fps... The 30-30 (Imp) has a lot more potential than many people give credit. INSIDE 100 yards, a big ol' 30 caliber hard cast flatpoint bullet hits with authority.

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/3030Again.htm

Just remember, typical modern jacketed bullets do their best work between 1900-2100fps IMPACT VELOCITY. Faster impact velocity, and the bullets will shed some weight as they penetrate, resulting in LESS overall penetration depending on the velocity at impact. One effects the other with a predictable degree of certainty. Expensive Premium bullets only raise the optimum impact velocity to about 2300fps. In either case, I would say use the heaviest bullets you can load or buy. Velocity will drop very little out to 100 yards, and point of aim will be fairly flat for either rifle. While I would personally like a more powerful cartridge in either case, a hundred yards is a good, sensible working range for the 30-30 if you prefer using it.

http://www.remington.com/magazine/preview/2003_0512_where2hit.htm

GOOD LUCK!

THE#1hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2004, 01:17:31 PM »

.270 win,I have one and thats what ill be taking this year packed with some 150's.. Are you going to be hunting in a field or in a wooded area?

Siskiyou · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2004, 04:05:46 PM »

I like my little 30-30 but I prefer my .270 Win. with a 150 grain bullet over the 30-30 slug. I am imperfect so I would rather have a larger round. Baiting is not allowed in my part of the world so setting up on a close range bear mayn't be in the books. Then again, with no bear tag or out of season I have had them within 50 yards. I should note that I normally encounter them while deer hunting.

I consider the 30-30 a 100 yard bear rifle, the .270 Win with 150 grain bullets a 200 yard bear rifle, and the 7MM Mag with 175 grain bullet good to 250-300 yards depending on the location. Of late I have been hunting with the .270 because I failed to get some 175 grainers loaded before the season.

We once, passed a shot up on a large bear down in a very nasty, rocky, steep, and steeper canyon. I had the .270 with me, but in this case the rifle did not matter. It would have taken a SkyCrane to get him out of there. If the shot was not good it would have been a real mess.

P.S. I must admit that during the early part of the season I carried a bolt action .300 Savage with 165 grain Nosler PT bullets. The Crony averages them out around 2630. I mark these rounds as +P+. While there are no signs of pressure in my rifle I am not sure about M99s. I believe that this load and the 150 grain .270 are on a par. The Nosler PT offers better close range penetration over the standard 150 grain .270 bullet which might be more explosive.

STL Cardinal Fan · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2004, 07:39:44 AM »

Go with the .270. If you can buy some 180 grain Barnes originals, buy them. Barnes no longer makes them, but they work fantastic. I have 4 or 5 boxes left, but keeping them for myself. This being said though, a .30-30 will work fine....remember it is not so much the caliber, as it is the shot placement. I know a guy who just got back from Canada and shot a 200 pound bear with a .243.

Bottom line, keep the smoke a rolling.

Kenny

MLRowland · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2004, 03:40:08 PM »

What about a 270 cal. 140 grain Winchester Fail Safe bullets?

Gowge · « **Reply #6 on:** November 11, 2004, 03:38:26 AM »

Quote from: MLRowland

What about a 270 cal. 140 grain Winchester Fail Safe bullets?

You gotta' think worst case and best case scenarios I think... In other words, if you get a chance at that trophy bear of a lifetime at close range, (best case!) would you rather have some HEAVY bullets loaded up that might penetrate thru bone and kill the bear, or a lighter bullet that might blow up on the shoulder causing you to have to trail the bear a long ways and maybe lose it to a slow & painful death far away? At high velocity & close range, bullets shed lotsa' weight. As they penetrate and lose weight, they penetrate even less. The heavier bullets help in several respects - first of all, they're heavier so they lose less weight - and their velocity is slowed down by virtue of their additional weight so that also contributes to losing less weight after impact. Most standard jacketed bullets perform best at 1900-2200fps impact velocity. Premium bullets increase this ideal impact velocity by a couple hundred fps and that's it. The very best bullets I've seen are the newest Lapua solids that claim a range of impact velocity between 600-950mps (about 1900 - 3100fps)! http://www.lapua.com/hunting.html Unfortunately, they don't offer a .270 Winchester load in this new bullet.

Siskiyou, since you load your own 30-30s, this article might interest you. What would you think of a 30-30 load pushin' a 180gr @ 2550fps?

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/paco/3030Again.htm

Yea, the chamber is reshaped a bit and case capacity is increaed to 50gr, but it's possible to stay under 40,000CUP with these loads.

GOOD LUCK!

Siskiyou · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2004, 04:00:17 PM »

Gowage: Thanks for the link. I have thought about a Improved 30-30 over the years, but always discarded the idea. I have a family member who has built a number of rifles over the years chambered for "Improved " cartridges. If he passed away today it would be hell sorting out rifles, cases, loading data, and dies. Unlike my self I suspect that he does not keep detailed records for each of his rifles. Then again maybe!

When the .307 Winchester came out I thought that took care of the need for an Improved 30-30. But there was no demand for it. I agree with but do not practice the heavier bullet concept. The primary reason is that while I load the 30-30 I find ammunition on sale all the time for it. Normally the sale ammo is loaded with 150 grain bullets. To maintain consistence I also reload 150 grain Core-Lokt and 150 grain Hornaday round nose bullets.

Over the years I have found that factory 30-30 bullets hold together and give picture book mushrooms. The industry has been making good 30-30 bullets for years. There are a few areas that I hunt that are very suitable for the 30-30. It is very difficult to get into a location in which a shot over 100 yards will be offered. If I hunt country that will offer longer shots I carry a different rifle.

But I have always like the idea of an Ackley Improved 30-30.

hatchetjack · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2005, 07:23:03 PM »

any bullet from a 30-30 or .270 through the lungs =dead bear.

pastorp · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:17:17 PM »

Seabass, Another thing to consider is If you are stand hunting if the bear comes in really late the scope on your 270 would allow you to place your shot in bad light. You didn't say where you were hunting but I noticed you live back east. Those woods get too dark for me to see open sights anymore. Regards, Byron

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2005, 01:15:34 AM »

Given your choices, I would go with the 270 and a quality hunting bullet. :grin:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2005, 08:01:09 PM »

If partial to the 30-30...why not just load up some Nosler 170 grain Partitions?

Mac

Muskie Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2005, 02:10:47 AM »

Ditto for Mac. " 170 gr.NP ". Took the words right out of my mouth.

NYH1 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2005, 10:58:34 AM »

Quote from: Gowge

Most standard jacketed bullets perform best at 1900-2200fps impact velocity. Premium bullets increase this ideal impact velocity by a couple hundred fps and that's it.
GOOD LUCK!

Gowge, so what your saying is that Remington's factory loaded 180 gr. Soft Point Core-Lokt bullet that has 2274 fps @ 100 yards when fired from a 308 Win. is better on black bear or anything else for that matter then their 180 gr. Swift Scirocco Bonded bullet with 3208 fps @ 100 yards when fired from a 300 Remington Ultra Mag ?

Buckeye · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2005, 03:35:07 PM »

Between the two ,I carry my 30/30 ,loaded with 170 gr. Cor-lokts.As for useing the ultra fast 30cal. guns,that simlly extends the shooting range not the killin power ,a 170 gr. Cor-Lokt moving at a moderatr vel. will punch two holes in a Blackie.

Its not important how fast the bullet is movin,but how it funtions on impact at a certain speed..

SeaBass · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2005, 07:28:27 PM »

Well, no bear last year. It's mostly an excuse for my buddy and I to get out in the woods and get some exercise. Humping those mountains we get plenty of it! There was a fair amount of sign so we may come across one sooner or later. No baiting in VT. All stalking.
I bought a leverscout mount and a Leupold M8 2.5x28mm scout scope for my .30-.30(model 94).
I'm looking for some 170gr bullets to load up. Any recommendations and/or pet loads?
Are the premium bullets really that much better than Rem Core-lokts at .30-.30 velocities?

Two Bears · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2005, 09:15:43 PM »

Thats easy.....BOW AND ARROW >------> :grin: