Author Topic: Wal-Mart vrs. the "Little Guy" and NEF's  (Read 2887 times)

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Offline Joel

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« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2005, 05:29:47 AM »
I think it's interesting that we blame a store for what our society has changed into.  Walmart wouldn't exist, at least at the prolific level it does, if not supported by the greed of society.  Walmart puts no one out of business, people do.  I happen to work for them(Walmart), and why I'm not particularly in love with the company, compared to those businesses they have "replaced", I'd say the businesses got what they deserved.  I"ve also worked in small "Mom and Pop" stores, where I was paid as little as possible to do as much as possible by individuals whose employer/employee relationship practices must have been gleaned from old Nazi handbooks.  No health insurance, no benefits whatever, and I'm supposed to mourn their passing? I don't think so.  And not because they couldn't have afforded to provide more; many lived quite well, and were simply too greedy(that word again) to provide better wages/care for their employees.  They wanted every red cent of their profits...no overhead allowed.  As a second issue, as some one has stated, Walmart has long recognized that the Handicapped/older citizens(55 and up) are still capable of providing a great deal of productive work, and  generally provide a loyal,  stable work force.  Our store relies heavily on older and handicapped workers(full time with all benefits) even though the store is located in a town with a large University(State College, Pa....Penn State).  I've worked in a couple of other Chain stores who insisted on using part time student help heavily, and they went out of business because students simply dont usually stay around long enough to be knowledgeable workers, or do they much give a crap what they accomplish(not all of them), or even if they show up to work at all.  These businesses failed from their own greed and stupid business practices...not Walmart showing up.  Walmart is currently the only large store left in the town....but, again, I don't blame Walmart for that.  When folks bitch to me about other stores disappearing, and now they have to wait in long lines(gee....sometimes they have to wait 15 minutes), I tell them exactly what I'm saying here....we did it folks....not walmart.  I still do drive 33 miles to Grices and Bob's Army/Navy...not because they are "small" businesses, but because they are "good" businesses who will provide me what I need quicker than ordering it from our store catalog(even though I get a 10% discount); but I also buy at the store also.  Far as I'm concerned, American business is about the survival of the smartest(smart= good customer serice, decent(not necessarily the lowest) prices,a willingness to invest in their emplyoyee's etc, etc..  Too many of the lamented small businesses that fell by the wayside were crap to begin with; run by individuals whose greed makes Walmart look like a  Sister Theresa clone in comparison.  Just had to get that off my chest, and I realize that I've stated a lot of generalites to which there are many exceptions.  The point being....we the people(consumers) do it, not some Evil Business.
       As an aside; our sporting goods section is reasonably well stocked with guns, ammo and accessories.  All of the folks who currently work in that section, both men and women, are quite knowledgeable hunters/shooters and the desk there often resembles one of them there old time gunstores, with folks standing around and shooting the bull, trading hunting/gun advice excetera.  The store management encourages that, but then this is central PA where deer hunting is a way of life and the schools close the first two days of the season.

Offline tscott

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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2005, 06:03:18 AM »
Joel, I'm completely with you!!! After 45 years in the workplace. I still work as hard as ever to support myself and a second family.
I do my version of the American deal. I buy the best deal I can get
regardless of where it came from or who made it. The best made rifle I have is a Savage Model 99 "f" made in 1955 in Chiccopee, Mass.
Hasn't one of us referred to that place as now taxachusetts?

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2005, 07:12:56 AM »
Joel:
 
I agree with a-lot that you've said with the exception of this statement. and a few other points..
Quote
Walmart wouldn't exist, at least at the prolific level it does, if not supported by the greed of society
...wanting to pay less for something isn't greed...especially when you are on a fixed budget...it's survival...


Not all Mom & Pop gunstores treat their employees like crap...and as not to paying for health insurance and other benefits... for some...they are lucky just  to make ends meet and stay solvent... not all small gunstores own their own buildings...a-lot have high overhead cost...and not all of the price difference is calculated as profit...
 
Walmart may be good for you... but..since your an employee...most would suspect you to have to say that...but that still doesn't change how when a Walmart moves into an area...other stores fail...they have to come close to matching their prices...and that is next to impossible since they aren't buying the quanity that Walmart buys..or has made for them...

I don't shop exclusively at Walmart...never have...never will...but I will get some of the things I need from them from time to time...and I will check there prices in the sporting goods dept when I'm there...for the rest of my shooting needs...I'll  support my local venders...those last remaining Mom & Pop stores that  are available to me...they will have items that Walmart will never carry...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2005, 07:33:53 AM »
I am amazed at some of the thought process associated with the simple act of buying the same product at different prices.  I work hard for the money, as I am sure you do.  The same product selling for $187 at one place and $240 at another should not involk a deep and abiding polemic  disection of economics.    That extra money can buy more milk and bread for the kids........let Mom and Pop operation fend for themselves and yes, my mentor is Ayn Rand.....

Zero

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« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2005, 10:12:24 AM »
America sold out America...It`s a race to the bottom...
Anybody that can`t see this is asleep at the wheel... :(

Offline el_nutso

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« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2005, 04:30:55 PM »
Quote from: superhornet
The same product selling for $187 at one place and $240 at another should not invoke a deep and abiding polemic dissection of economics.


But it's not just the economics, it's mostly the debate of what level of service and after-sale care will you receive for your dollar.  Just how much are we willing to sacrifice to save a few bucks turns into the ultimate debate.  The price difference itself isn't a deal breaker, it's nice to save the money and apply it somewhere else, but it's also nice to know you have somewhere other than a factory to turn for customer service.

It's like Joel said, living in central PA there are stores that can better suit your needs regardless of initial price up front.  (As a former Blair County resident I have set foot in most if not all of them in my lifetime.) Those were (and still are) the stores that took the time to build a relationship with their regular and semi-regular customers akin to that of a quality bank.  There's a good feeling a few weeks after dropping my hard earned money on a new gun, ammo, and accessories to walk into a store and have the clerk acknowledge me by name and ask you how my new <insert brand & model> is.  All I seem to get at WM for any type of "after-sale service" is a blank stare and the occasional person asking to see ID.

The ultimate question of "Do we as consumers purchase products, service, or both?  And just how much are we willing to pay for it" remains to be answered.  It stops being a matter of economics, and becomes an logical and emotional response.   A handi 45/70 is a handi 45/70 is a handi 45/70...  The features, regardless of where it comes from on the retail end, don't change.   The emotional response of "gee, that makes me feel good, happy, angry, cheap, etc..." is what ultimately sells anyone on anything.  So, how DO you feel about buying firearms at wal-mart????   :-)

I agree with Zero to an extent, we have taken it upon ourselves to lower our standards for a lower price.  It has become acceptable, under the guise of being frugal, to take less quality, less service, and less satisfaction for a lower price.

Offline tcman

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« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2005, 05:20:36 PM »
I just ordered a Handi-Ultra Varmint from Wal Mart and feel pretty good about it...thanks for asking by the way....on the quality thing in the next to last paragraph, I guess the quality of my new rifle is expected to be the same as if I bought the weapon from another (non-wal mart) dealer. Service seemed fine as well....last time I special ordered anything from my local gunshop it never did get here...waited for months and that didn't really break up the gunshop owner to bad either.

On the flip side, I don't like Wal Mart hurting the other businesses.....if some of them would even attemp to compete I would help....but I am not about to throw extra wads of money at someone who won't meet me half way.

Kind of like when I bought a Victor "Pack" torch setup...one of those sets that is in a small hand carrier and has the small bottles. I asked a local welding supply shop if they had one...they did. I asked what they wanted and it was $80 - $90 more than Lowes, which was 140 miles away.

I told the guy that if he could get his price within $50 of Lowes I'd buy it from him........he didn't even bat an eye when he said no. My little car at the time got 44 miles per gallon and gas was about $1.60 a gallon.
Got my torch set from Lowes....oh by the way, I do let the local guy fill the bottles when they run out.

Offline Mitch in MI

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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2005, 02:41:57 AM »
Quote from: el_nutso
The city itself has an ordinance that bans gun sales within city limits, so that means a road trip to even browse anywhere.


And you moved TO that God forsaken place?

Offline el_nutso

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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2005, 08:35:11 AM »
Quote from: Mitch in MI
And you moved TO that God forsaken place?


unfortunately yes...  :oops:  It's a learning experience I am NOT soon to repeat.  Fortunately we're soon moving OUT of said God forsaken place though, so there is a light on the horizon!

Offline MSP Ret

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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2005, 09:59:41 AM »
What locale is that that forbids gun sales of any sort within it's boundaries? City and state please!!!....<><.... :roll:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline slayer

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« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2005, 12:41:50 PM »
I dought it`s Pennsylvania, we have tons of gun sales here. Ooh, let`s guess, N.Y. City or maybe California? Jack.

Offline Mitch in MI

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« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2005, 12:43:32 PM »
Quote from: MSP Ret
What locale is that that forbids gun sales of any sort within it's boundaries? City and state please!!!....<><.... :roll:


I think a few Chicago suburbs qualify, I'd take a look at Moron Grove first. (try Googling "Morton Grove", the Sun-Times insists on spelling it that way) I tried it just now, and most of the links are on the handgun ban. What was the name of the suburb that banned parking a pickup truck in your own driveway?

Offline U.P. Bulldog

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Walmart
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2005, 05:21:30 PM »
When was the last time Wal-Mart did anything to support the 2nd Amendment? At least there are quite a few mom and pop gunstores that are members of the NRA Business Alliance or do something in the way of supporting Liberty.
Try asking anyone behind the sporting goods counter at Wally-world
or Kommie-mart a tech question on any of the guns they sell.
Many times, rather than admit they dont know anything they will supply people with false information.

U.P. Bulldog
"Blessed be the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle"

Psalm of David, 144:1


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S&W 686 W/ 200gr Cor-Bon Hardcast

Offline Markus

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« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2005, 01:55:43 AM »
Little guys can't truly compete with walmarts prices. I've been involved a little in retail management and in the small reantal store I work at we wanted to start selling a few contractor grade power tools. Our wholesale price was more than lowes retail price.I patronize a small local hardware store every day almost over lowes though. The guys that work there are knowledgable and can tell you exactly were that left hand threaded, brass hex head bolt is. The folks at Lowes come and stand at the wall and stare at the lables just like you. I'll give Bob the extra pennies everytime on simple hardware purchases.
PROUD REDNECK CONSERVATIVE

I'd much rather be remembered for being a great shot than having the most expensive gun

Offline slayer

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« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2005, 02:09:28 AM »
I just ordered a H&R BC .45/70 from Wally World and they knew what to do very well, in and out in 15 minutes!! I think I got a lucky store thoguh. The guy behind the couter grabbed the form and took it to Layaway and that is normal procedure and the lady there knew exactly what to do. Very smooth process. I do buy mopst of my stuff from mail orde and small to medium shops, but the price form WW for the BC was to good to pass up. Jack.

Offline MSP Ret

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« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2005, 02:35:28 AM »
:D , Welcome aboard U.P. Bulldog and glad to hear your opinions. Why don't you come by and post more often, (this is an invitation) it sounds as if you fit right in. There is a problem though, if you are not yet infected with Handi-itus you may soon be and there is a distinct possibility you also could become a full fledged Handiholic. Why you could even start driving more than half way across this great country with your trunk loaded with guns and ammo just to get together with a bunch of similarly affected guys, sit in a field and shot P-dogs all day, then sit around a fire most of the night with a cold beverage of your choice and regale the others with stories of your hunting abilities and your 10 best shots!!! I know, I know, it sounds like a tough, dirty job but someone has to do it....<><....  :grin:
"Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley

Offline Ponydog

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« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2005, 09:08:53 AM »
The only comment about Wal Mart buying power is this......our Local Wally World, has about 12 shotguns.....and even fewer rifles.....yes , they do have a few in the "back room"...but because they can get them so quickly, they dont stock alot of guns......been to Gander Mtn lately???? they , have literally hundreds of guns....all the time . PLUS their backroom.....so it would make sense that their buying power would be greater.....88 stores x a few thousand guns equals a load of buying power.....BUT Wally still beats Gander Mt as well..(on in stock guns) and Gander has a world of selection that Wal Mart does NOT have....Mom and Pops need loyalty and the good service to sell guns.......the local Wal Mart here has a couple of great sales staff folks, who know their guns....always a pleasant experience.....
“when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government.”

Offline tcman

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« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2005, 01:46:34 PM »
Ponydog....your count on Gander mountain may be correct but when you look at THOUSANDS of Wal Marts.....now that's buying power.

Offline gwhilikerz

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« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2005, 02:13:19 PM »
I don't really care whether I buy from Mom&Pop Or Wally-World to be honest about it. It sounds real good to say we should be "Americans" and support m&p because they do so much for liberty or other stuff. Well, I have two sisters-in-law  and three nieces who work at wal-mart. Both my  s-i-l's are married to disabled vets.  Two of the nieces have husbands who served their time in the Army.  Now if you are saying we shouldn't buy from wal-mart you are saying that my kinfolk don't need jobs  :x . Wally hires local people and those local people spend money locally. I see nothing wrong with buying wherever I get the best deal. (The opinions stated here are mine and I take full responsibility for them) :-)

Offline el_nutso

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« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2005, 08:09:50 PM »
Quote from: slayer
I dought it`s Pennsylvania, we have tons of gun sales here. Ooh, let`s guess, N.Y. City or maybe California? Jack.


Try again, it IS in PA...  Gun sales are illegal within Pittsburgh city limits.  Outside of the city yes, but within the city of Pittsburgh it's illegal.  

http://www.acslpa.org/gstopper/Pghdealers.htm

Offline Brett

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« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2005, 01:42:44 AM »
I have to agree with Gwhilikers. Yes it is sad in a way to see the demise of the M&P stores but you can't stop progress.  And one Waly-World employs more Americans than 100 M&Ps.
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Offline Swift One

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Mom and Pop Stores
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2005, 11:17:53 AM »
At $2.30+ for a gallon of gas, $3 for a gallon of milk, property tax on the rise, and everything just getting plain expensive, the average person in this society learns to shop economically if he/she is to survive.  Granted, we are our own worst enemy and have sold ourselves out which resulted in this expensive backstabbing world.  But, that is the reality of the situation.  That is the world that we live in, and unfortunately, a few gunbuyers protesting Walmart and buying their firearms from mom and pop stores is not going to tip the tables.  We are WAY outnumbered by the antis, tree huggers, and yuppies that thrive on greed, Walmart, and operations like it.  It's not a matter of bowing to the system, it's a matter of how to survive in today's world.


I love to hear stories that my dad tells of how you used to pull up to a gas station and it was all full service with folks running out to your car and checking everything while they filled you up.  Or,  walking into the small town resturaunt and getting a "plate full" for just a few dollars.  Unfortunatley, those days are gone for the most part.  It's a cut throat world out there and if I can save $10, I am gonna.
It's all a hot mess...........

Offline slayer

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« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2005, 12:36:50 PM »
Bob O`conner is a Liberal Democrat, unfortunately, we have way to many of them in PA. I usually vote Republican or Independant or Liberaterian. I remember tons of gun shops in the City, it seamed everyone was selling them, right doen to the corner hardware store. Most got out because of the overegulations and the headaches of it all. I know still of gun shops in the sity, but those areas mentioned, I imagine not anymore. One of those areas is a big party area and the other has a alot of Pawn Shops, see the correlation. Either way ,it isn`t right, but people keep voting these carreer politicians back in, it makes me so sick :x Jack.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2005, 03:36:02 PM »
Swift One, you can get milk for $3.00 a gallon!  Dang it's about $4.10 around Charlotte, NC.  :cry:
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Offline el_nutso

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« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2005, 05:13:06 PM »
Quote from: slayer
One of those areas is a big party area and the other has a alot of Pawn Shops, see the correlation. Either way ,it isn`t right, but people keep voting these carreer politicians back in, it makes me so sick :x Jack.


Edited because, well hell, looking back on it, this post was downright tasteless...  I'll keep my opinions on the shortcomings on Pittsburgh, their taxes, retarded gun laws, and crooked politicians to myself... :)  :twisted:

Offline slayer

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« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2005, 12:25:15 PM »
A Gallon of Milk is $259 in Ohio. I am on the border of PA-OH and WV. Jack.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2005, 04:18:24 PM »
Quote from: slayer
A Gallon of Milk is $259 in Ohio. I am on the border of PA-OH and WV. Jack.


 :shock: I'ld start drinkin' my coffee black and pore beer on my cornflakes.  Well, okay I'ld have to start drinkin' my coffee black (beer don't mix well with coffee).  :wink:
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