Shot the 30-30 I got for Mac Fri. & its a shooter. Winchester 150 factory 1 in to 1.5 in group & rem 150's about the same. That was on a windy Oklahoma day(not often it isn't) north wind to boot. The winchester Canadian Centenial with a 20 in octagon barrel got abot 2.5 in group with open sights, need to peep it perty gun anyhow need to work up some loads for the handy in some lighter slugs & down load them for the boy