454 casull too small?

[willis5]

What are some of the animals that you would NOT hunt with a 454 because you would be under gunned? Elephant and what else?

I know that shot placement is the key to success with any caliber, so I don't want to start a "I harpooned a whale with a splinter and 6 pound test line..." discussion. Just what do you guys think? Bullets for dinosaurs? etc... Lets tlak about factory and handloads.

Cheers,
Willis5

[jhalcott]

First off ,you will think me nuts,but, I have shot ground hogs (one actually) with a 577 nitro express. A true elephant gun!Why,you ask!
 Because I had the oppurtunity to! Why do I hunt,Same reason. I have used nearly every factory round made to hunt something.Some to big for the game, RARELY a gun to small ,LIKE the 17 Rem for white tail deer.
  I would hunt Elephant with the 454 OR the 44 mag IF I had the correct ammo for the job.I would also put in the time and practice to be CERTAIN I have the ability to accomplish the task. I would not by a gun on a whim and take it hunting the next day,no matter the gun or game    jh
  BTW the 17 worked on the crop raiding doe!

[PaulS]

What are some of the animals that you would NOT hunt with a 454 because you would be under gunned? Elephant and what else?

I know that shot placement is the key to success with any caliber, so I don't want to start a "I harpooned a whale with a splinter and 6 pound test line..." discussion. Just what do you guys think? Bullets for dinosaurs? etc... Lets tlak about factory and handloads.

Cheers,
Willis5

Willis5,
Let me preface this answer with some info that might prevent a flame war:
1. I sight my weapons for no more than +/- 1 inch from line of sight
2. I believe that an animal should be killed with due respect
3. I believe that the average hunter should follow the rule that says "more is better". (it is better to use a 338 mag on a rabbit than a 223 on a moose)

With that said, I ran a 454 maximum load and velocity through my ballistics program and found this:

Point blank range: sighted at 87 yds +/- 1" to 100yds
muzzle energy 1600 (just under)
muzzle velocity 1550
penetration index (muzzle) 14
expansion index (muzzle) 69
hunting index (muzzle) 485 lbs
100 yd energy 1003
100 yd velocity 1227
penetration index (100 yds) 10
expansion index (100 yds) 55
hunting index (100 yds) 249 lbs

Let me explain the terms:
PENETRATION INDEX; is a value that when applied to the penetration I get from my fackler box can be applied to soft tissue penetration in game animals - it has been tested and works. In this example at 100 yards you will get 10/14 or 71% of the penetration that you get at the muzzle. (my ESTIMATION (not tested) is about 28 inches in soft tissue)

EXPANSION INDEX; is a value that can be used to determine the amount of expansion that you can expect down-range as compared to results in my fackler box. In this case you will get 69% of the expansion at 100 yards that you get at the muzzle. (my guess with soft point bullets would be a diameter of .7 inches at the muzzle and .6 inch diameter at 100 yards.

HUNTING INDEX; is the weight of a game animal that can reasonably be killed with a single shot placed into the vitals of the animal. (this index is lower than it could be to account for quartering shots and less than ideal situations - it does suppose good shot placement and quality bullets)

With all this explaination in place I would say that an average black bear to 75 yards would be ok, deer out to 100 yards is ok, small elk at 25 yards. Can larger animals be taken at greater yards? SURE! Can they be killed humanely? SURE! Some hnters can put a bullet into the eye socket of a charging bruin at 100 yards nearly every time.

PaulS

[41MAG]

The 454 is not to small, It has been used & has stopped all the game it is pointed at .Even the BIG 5.But like all guns it is only as good as the person holding it.  
.

[wyote]

I watched a buddy shoot a buffalo with his 454. He has also taken moose and elk.

I have taken game up the size of moose. I think I would take anything up to the size of grizzly (not brown bears).

I carry my 454 any time in out in grizzly country, which is almost everywhere around here.

I shoot a 330 LBT cast bullet in my 454

[thomas]

Like the 44 Mag the 454 is Much too small to take large game!
The only option for hunting large game is the 500 S&W

Funny but this will be the reply 6 months from now.
The 44 Mag was big enough to take or stop ANYTHING with the proper bullet just 10 years ago. Then came the CASULL it made the 44 MAG a plinking round to all the NEWBIES.
Now with the 500 SW were are going to hear all the BALONEY about the 454 being too small to stop a black bear.
where will it stop?
Tom

[KING]

 Thomas.  In attempting an answer to your question i would pose"that it will stop when we start using our heads".  Now in looking at that answer it will probably never stop,because we have way to many people out there attempting to pull stunts with handguns.  I agree on what you had said ref the .44 mag and the .454.  Im sure that after the 500 S&W is gone " one bigger " we will be here with the same questions.    Stay safe...King

[TopGun]

Thomas--Don't take this wrong, but fooey on you! a .44 mag was good enough 10yrs ago? Sorry, maybe that's all the longer you've been shooting them? but I was stopping deer and black bear with my first M29 and SBH 35 yrs ago! A man's got to know his limitations, and the limits of his gun! Marketing and man's materialistic ways keep the new guns and cartridges rolling off the line. I'm not standing in line for a new G2--what's wrong with the Contender the way it is? I still carry a 44 maggie every time I'm in the woods. I probably would opt for a 454 if I live in Griz country, but I feel my 285-320 SSK hardcast loads would put a real hurting on anything as far as I can hit it.  There does come a point when the handgun? you carry can be so big, you may as well sling a rifle. I will have a 500S&W in my collection though. Now, in the age of Star Wars and Jurrasic Park, I'd still use my Ruger SBH Hunter with my 320 SSK HC over too many grains of H110 to hunt dino's. I already have a stegosaurus and 3 T-Rex's to this load. It is a Rhino stomper! One T-rex did go for about 100yds before I found piled up in a swamp-bog. The Condor's were already feeding on him the next day. I chased them and did a forensic exam. Complete pass-thru on the lung shot and I got 6 feet of penetration on teh shot quartering away! This is performance. I hope you guys enjoyed the light-hearted story. I love B-B-Qued T-Rex burgers with my beer!
Be safe, enjoy all the guns you can, and stay within your limits.  I was scared to death to hunt Elk with my 45LC--it worked every bit as good as a .44 maggie, providing it's not a black powder load or gun! They are pretty anemic for hunting.

[thomas]

It was a JOKE! Read the post.
Ten years ago a 44 Mag was enough......BUT NOW the 454 has overshadowed it in peoples minds.
I think the 44 Mag is plenty

BUT I will buy a 500 Mag for the same reason I like BIG trucks and BIG motors.
I just WANT it
Tom

[TopGun]

I know it was, that's why I wrote about the Dino's!
PS-Last night right after I signed off I got a Brontosaurus with my .358JDJ. It took 2 shots though. They are big! Now for your love of big trucks? I despise any who l likes big trucks and big motors in todays world and economy--that's why I drive an 2002 Avalanche with the BIG motor. I need it to haul all my guns and dead Dinosaurs around!

[willis5]

:-D

This is great!

[thomas]

Its good to know You have it that bad. I only have a GMC 4x4 Dually with a turbo charged 502
The last truck with a 7.4 was just too SMALL
Tom

[Zachary]

I think I would take anything up to the size of grizzly (not brown bears).

Grizzlies ARE Brown bears.  It's just that the Brown bears in the coastal areas are called, well, Brown bears, and the brown bears in the interior regions are called grizzles.  The Coastal Brown bears are generally bigger because they eats tons of salmon.  The Interior Brown Bears (Grizzlies) don't have such large quanities, or so easy catches, of lunches and dinners. :wink:

Zachary

[Wijbrandus]

I have the .454 Ruger SRH.  The recoil I experience when firing heavy factory loads mean to me that anything on the other end that's under 25 yards will be toast, if I can hit it well enough.

Of course, the recoil also means that I load it with hot .45 Colt instead of .454 for my sidearm here in Colorado.  I don't think I'm in too much danger from a grizz here, but the black bears and mean-ass elk keep me on my toes.  That recoil is just a tad too heavy for me at this point, and I don't see me getting much more capable.  If it weren't for hot .45 Colts, I'd probably have traded it in on a .44 by now.

If I were packing in Alaska, or even Idaho, I'd definitely keep with the .454 loads.  Grizzly are just not worth messing around with.  They frankly scare the bejeesus out of me.

At least until I get my chance to put one on my wall.  

~Robert

[Selmer]

Top Gun, it's good that you like big trucks and big engines, too bad you picked such an ugly one!!!  I'm partially kidding.  To each his own, I like my restored 73 Chevy Suburban that my father bought new and is now mine.  That Avalanche just has too much plastic on it for my tastes, but I hope you like it.  BTW, how exactly does it turn into an SUV?  I've only ever seen them drving around in a pickup configuration.
Selmer