Author Topic: Marines not welcome  (Read 1346 times)

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Offline FWiedner

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Marines not welcome
« on: May 05, 2005, 04:32:03 AM »
Marines Scare Churchgoers

California churchgoers called the cops on three strange men they thought were skinheads — but the bald trio turned out to be Marines looking for a buddy.

"They have short Marine haircuts, and someone perceived that they were skinheads, and that they were intimidating people," said San Bernardino County (search) sheriff's Sgt. Frank Gonzales.  "It turns out that was not the case, and they were very polite."

It all began April 24 at Spanish-language mass at St.Peter and St. Paul Roman Catholic Church in Rancho Cucamonga (search), about 40 miles east of Los Angeles.

During the service, three bald men in civilian clothes came in and sat down.

Before Mass had even finished, the three suddenly got up, walked to the front of the room, turned and faced the congregation in silence for a few moments — and then left.

"It was very disrespectful," said parishioner Aida Nordahl, who said she and her fellow congregants were put ill at ease.

The next Sunday, May 1, the three men came back, sitting among worshippers and talking to each other during Mass.

That's when someone in the congregation called the sheriff's department.

The three men told deputies that they'd just returned from service in Iraq and were looking for a friend they thought might attend services at the church.

When they didn't see him in the congregation the first time, they came back a week later.

The Rev. Patrick Kirsch explained what had happened to relieved parishioners, and said he considered the matter closed.

"We don't want to make it more than it is," he said. "I was reassured by the police that [the men] wouldn't be back."

*FW Note:  So, everone is welcomed in God's house except for those who try to ensure that we're allowed to have and visit such places.

 :roll:
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline tubbythetuba

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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2005, 12:53:08 PM »
Quote
*FW Note: So, everone is welcomed in God's house except for those who try to ensure that we're allowed to have and visit such places.


Back in the 60s, quite a few "men" opposed to the Viet Nam war found refuge in the Priesthood or other  churches as ministers.......It does not take a leap of logic to understand why religion has become more liberal the last couple decades as young war protesters have assumed positions of authority in the churches.
That Sound You Hear In The Woods While Hunting  Is Deer Laughing

Offline Bigdog57

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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 07:22:32 AM »
I call it "The Magnificent Seven Syndrome".  The Cowboys are never appreciated til the Bandits are at the door.   :?

And these people were mighty unobservant, not to recognise Marines!  They have a totally different bearing than a skinhead.

Offline Brett

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 10:13:30 AM »
The Good Rev.  Patrick Kirsch dropped the ball if you ask me.  He should have approached the men, found out who they were, why they were there and invited them to attend service the next Sunday.  That would have been the proper, Christian thing to do.
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Offline Slamfire

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 02:24:57 PM »
Amen Brett, I wouldn't go back to a church that didn't invite me to do so.  :P
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline Mikey

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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2005, 03:14:17 AM »
Fellas, I think you have to understand that the two longest established schools of administraion, the church and the military, are diametrically opposed.  One teaches their people how to act and think on thier own, the other doesn't.  I believe there is an inherent distrust between the two.  One would control all aspects of an individual's life and the other teaches one how to think and act for himself.  I think that when one individual from one school encounters those from the other school fear and loathing cloud their minds.  And I agree, the reverand dropped the ball, badly.  Kinda makes ya wonder who's really a good Christian and who isn't.  JMHO.  Mikey.

Offline Shorty

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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2005, 12:40:32 PM »
Don't you realize that a true Christian DOES loathe the military?

A true Christian turns the other cheek and loves his enemies.
(wouldn't make much of a Marine, would he?)

A true Christian is apparently willing to be a SLAVE to his enemies.
That's why Christianity came about under Roman rule.
That's why African slaves took to Christianity so readily.

Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2005, 01:26:42 PM »
Quote from: Shorty
Don't you realize that a true Christian DOES loathe the military?


Well there you're wrong right off the bat.  A TRUE Christian doesn't loathe ANYBODY.

And this is coming from a self-labeled Agnostic (me).

Ian
Kids that Hunt, Fish and Trap
Dont Steal, Deal, and Murder


usually...

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2005, 03:25:41 PM »
Woooweee! What a bunch of misconceptions....
   Speaking as a Christian...and one who has served his time in the military, I would like to correct a few BIG misconceptions..
 
 1) Christians DO NOT loathe the military..
     
     A) When Christ healed the Centurion's servant (Matt 8:5-11)and when he dealt closely with tha Centurion Cornelius (Acts 10)...and when Paul converted Centurions and Roman military...there is no record of Jesus or Paul telling these men to "quit their day job" or "get into another line of work."
     
     B) The commandment that says " thou shalt not kill" is best read "thou shalt not MURDER"...there is a difference..

  2) I would like to know Shorty's authority when he states that Christians  apparently like being someone's slave...or...that Christianity came about under Roman rule..The first statement is false the second a Long stretch.

   1) Nowhere does christian doctrine encourage anyone to become a slave. In fact it was Christians (e.g. Wilburforce) that was the prime mover in eradicating slavery in the western world...

   2) Christianity came about not in Rome but yes, in a Roman dominated land (virtually all the KNOWN world was under Rome). However it began IN SPITE of Rome...not because of Rome.
   The Roman authorities of the time would liked to have crushed the the faith that Christ started..

 C) ...The church and the military are diameterically opposed...
   Where in the world did that idea come from...there may be some half-baked denominations or individual local bodies that think that way...but no church that I have ever attended.
  If I found even a hint of such animosity...I would leave...as soon as I got done berating them publicly..

      1) Any church or clergyman that doesn't know how the military protects their very right to worship, in my opinion...doesn't deserve to preach !

  2) I personally know not a single preacher personally, that was a "war protester"...if he once was, he had best have admitted his mistake and begged forgiveness for his crime...or I would have no truck with him...

        What we apparently have here is possibly an old church filled with old ladies ( their husbands, may be too numb to take their wives to church)..
   These old ladies perhaps misread the bald heads ( is their neighborhood more likely to have skinheads or Marines )...so they made a stupid mistake...Stupid mistakes can be made by anybody, doesn't have to be a church...DUH !
 
   The FW goes on to imply that churches discriminate against Marines...BALDERDASH !!! FW knows better than that !

    Let me tell you of our small country church...regular attendance perhaps 80-100 people in all, perhaps 15 families...
 
    Those 80-100 people have a total of about 20 family members in the military right now...about half of them in a war zone. There are a couple civilian workers in Iraq also..
    Each week every one of them is included in our public prayers, not to mention the thousands of personal prayers that must be ascending.
    We don't miss repeating the "Pledge to the Flag" or singing the "Star Spangled Banner"
   Our members in military range from buck privates to a female rocket scientist with the Air Force..
 
   The "Fourth of July" services are a real celebration with special recognition for military...both present and past...
   
    Anthems of each of the services will be played, while we veterans and current military will rise when our anthem is played..
 
  Does that sound like dislike or disrespect to anyone here ?

     My grandson  (a sincere Christian)is a Marine right now..
 He is in a Marine "special-ops" unit. He is progresssing ahead of schedule rank-wise, was "selected" by the special-ops commander to be his unit armorer .
   He has scored "expert" every time he fired for score and will soon be a Marine rifle instructor.
  I saw to it that Josh had martial arts training (kick-boxing) before he became a Marine...now he needs just one more belt to be a Marine Corps instructor in martial arts.
   
  A little over a year ago, when he was in training at Parris Island, he said that only 2 or 3 of the trainees in his platoon were not professing Christians...the rest would often form a 'prayer circle' as some football teams do, when they were facing a real trial...

     So when Shorty says a Christian wouldn't make a good Marine...I say Shorty must be smoking something...

    I could introduce him to a few Christian Marines ...then HE can tell THEM... they are not good Marines...LOL

   I have to admit that when I heard that there seemed to be such a perponderance of Christians in  the Marines....I stopped to reflect..

   Then it became obvious...when a young person is asked to serve his country for low pay, risking his life for an ulterior purpose...obviously, only someone that believed in  something or someone greater and higher
 than "self" would choose to serve...natural for a Christian..

     The "self" centered people would be chasing the buck or chasing pleasure...one or the other..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Brett

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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2005, 03:49:26 PM »
Amen Ironglow.  My church vs military experience has been much like yours.  Our church is proud of those who have and are currently serving in the armed forces and we keep them in our prayers always.  Many of our members have served this country including our Paster who served in the navy.  Christianity and protecting our country are not diametrically opposed.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2005, 03:55:38 PM »
Doesn't anybody notice that Fweds copies are missing many items, out of context and meant to incite, and you all fall for it.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 03:59:47 PM »
FW should wonder how he looks to people..

   Anyone here that thinks christians don't make good Marines...please note my post under "How's your physical condition ? "....do you think you could have done better than that "Christian"?

     Selah....Ironglow
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 06:38:34 PM »
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
Doesn't anybody notice that Fweds copies are missing many items, out of context and meant to incite, and you all fall for it.


This is a link directly to the article I presented.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155513,00.html

Does the staff at "The Home" know that you can get to the computer?

 :wink:


Quote from: Ironglow
FW should wonder how he looks to people..


Yeah, I'll spend my every waking hour doing that...

 :roll:



 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

 :D
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2005, 10:07:01 PM »
HUMMMMM, let us go back to the original, article I mean :wink: .
Three guys in civies, short-short hair.
They come in after service has begun.
They walk to the front during the service, turn, look and leave the service.
Folks, that would make even the slowest suspicious.
Then the next week they return.
Now boys I am not paranoid but I would admit too two things.
1) I would not see these boys as seeking spiritual relief.
2) I would be very concerned as to their intent.
If they had stayed for the service, asked a few of the folks if they knew the person they were looking for, ect. In other word let somebody know they were not up to no good they possible could/would have made this conversation here useless.
I got to side with the congregation on this one boys. Those marines did act a little suspicious--who knew they were marines, anyway.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Brett

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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2005, 07:40:57 AM »
Maybe I have big brass ones or I'm plain stupid but I make it a point to meet visiters that come to my church regardless of, or sometimes especially because the way they look or act.  I'll walk up to them, introduce myself and start asking questions.  Not an interrogation just a few friendly questions showing an interest in them.  What's your name(s)?  I don't believe I've seen you here before, are you new to the area or just passing threw?  Do you know any one who attends church here?  If so I'll help you locate them.  Would you like a literature packet telling you about our church, our programs and services?  This should be part of the job of the elders (deacons) in any church.  It welcomes those who are looking and discourages those who are looking for trouble.  I have not had to call the law on anyone yet.
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2005, 07:42:31 AM »
Quote from: williamlayton
HUMMMMM, let us go back to the original, article I mean :wink: .
Three guys in civies, short-short hair.
They come in after service has begun.
They walk to the front during the service, turn, look and leave the service.
Folks, that would make even the slowest suspicious.
Then the next week they return.
Now boys I am not paranoid but I would admit too two things.
1) I would not see these boys as seeking spiritual relief.
2) I would be very concerned as to their intent.
If they had stayed for the service, asked a few of the folks if they knew the person they were looking for, ect. In other word let somebody know they were not up to no good they possible could/would have made this conversation here useless.
I got to side with the congregation on this one boys. Those marines did act a little suspicious--who knew they were marines, anyway.
Blessings


Were they wearing any "colors"?
Did they physically accost anyone or use any racially derogatory language?
Did they damage or steal anything?
Did they take any deliberate or overt action to disrupt the service?

Were they "disrespectful" in any manner other than "walking to the front and looking around" and "coming back the next week"?  Why are these activities regarded as "disrespectful"?  

What, may I ask, is there to identify them as skinheads or to mark them as troublemakers?

So far, the only things I've gotten out of this is that unfamiliar white people with short hair minding their own business are, for whatever reason, terribly frightening to Hispanic Catholics, and that engaging in these rather pedestrian activities makes one unwelcome in that particular San Bernardino church.

The only disrespect I am able to devine here flows directly from these parishioners towards "outsiders".

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2005, 07:56:11 AM »
Quote from: Brett
Maybe I have big brass ones or I'm plain stupid but I make it a point to meet visiters that come to my church regardless of, or sometimes especially because the way they look or act.  I'll walk up to them, introduce myself and start asking questions.  Not an interrogation just a few friendly questions showing an interest in them.  What's your name(s)?  I don't believe I've seen you here before, are you new to the area or just passing threw?  Do you know any one who attends church here?  If so I'll help you locate them.  Would you like a literature packet telling you about our church, our programs and services?  This should be part of the job of the elders (deacons) in any church.  It welcomes those who are looking and discourages those who are looking for trouble.  I have not had to call the law on anyone yet.



IMO that is how newcomers should be treated in a church, with interest and respect.  They should feel welcomed and accomodated.

My approval wouldn't buy you a cup of coffee, but I like your style!

 :D
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Slamfire

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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2005, 11:17:48 AM »
Well it does say it was a California church. I don't see why they couldn't just roll up their windows and lock the doors on their cars, wouldn't have had to call the sheriff. I'm suprised he got there within the amount of time the service used anyway.  :roll:
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline ironglow

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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2005, 03:53:38 PM »
the nay-sayers on this thread aren't worth addressing anymore.
  Myself and others have provided cogent, logical explanations...if they don't "get it' by now; they never will ..
   
   BTW...Shorty says that sincere Christians can't make good Marines...yeah..just like a sincere Christian named Alvin York wasn't much of a soldier...DUH !

                       over and out...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)