Author Topic: 38/55 brass ??  (Read 897 times)

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Offline missed_shot

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38/55 brass ??
« on: May 11, 2005, 02:21:14 AM »
Does anyone know where I can get brass for my newly aquired target 38/55??.  I have called several places and was told they were out of them. It seems they are run seasonally . What a hassle getting bullets and brass. If I had know this, I would have purchased the handi 30/30. thanks
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Offline riverjackal

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 02:37:33 AM »
Missed shot,
 You might as well get used to hard to get brass for the 38 55. No one wants to compete with winchester in the ammo for the rifle. Starline is blowing in the wind about it. Win. Factory loads are a dollar a pop. Cases can be made from 30 30 but they will be short. I recently ran a .375 expander into some new 30 30 cases and they came out at 1.970 long, they were 2.030 when new. No splits in 10 cases though.
 Ammo can be reloaded for the caliber but it is a challenge to say the least. Non existantant jacketed bullets except for barnes.
 I am glad to see that you have one, if they get popular again maybe someone will produce ammo and reloading components for them.

Offline handirifle

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 04:12:11 AM »
Or you can do it the easy way like I did at Ebay
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Offline cheatermk3

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38-55 brass
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 04:47:51 AM »
I just got 100 cases for $30 plus shipping from these guys:
www.lockstock.com  

Go to >brass>Winchester>rifle brass; it's on the second page.

There are several folks here that have helped me with getting my Target to shoot.  You'll be happy with yours, I love mine.

Offline JPH45

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 06:01:13 AM »
You can also fireform brass from 30-30. Take 10-15 grains of Unique (you' ll have to experiment) fill the case to the neck with Cream 'O Wheat, put a small ball of cotton or daycon on top, hold the rifle straight up and fire. Start low on the powder charge, don't use any more than needed to straighten the case, You can even start with 6 or 8 grains. It is best to anneal the cae prior to this, but not absolutely nessicary. If you cast, simply hold the neck of the case in the melt till the case is hot to your finger tips  and drop into water.
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Offline quickdtoo

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 06:19:17 AM »
Cabelas has it in stock....

Winchester 38-55 Brass
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Offline cheatermk3

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reloading the 38-55
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2005, 06:23:42 AM »
Quote from: riverjackal
Missed shot,
  Ammo can be reloaded for the caliber but it is a challenge to say the least. Non existantant jacketed bullets except for barnes.


I'm having good luck shooting .375" jacketed bullets in my .379 bore Target.  I believe that a stout crimp is the key, along with using thinner jacketed bullets for caliber, like the Speer and Hornady bullets that are designed for the 375WIN, avoiding the thicker jacketed bullets for use in the big magnums.

Offline handirifle

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2005, 11:41:39 AM »
Boer bullets in WA state makes a 220gr jacketed for the 38-55 too.  No web site though.  Saw a write up on them about a year ago, and they were considered excellent bullets.

You can look them up on the web though and find a contact number.  You cannot expect the kind of support for the 38-55 as say the 45-70 but it is out there.
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Offline JPH45

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2005, 12:51:36 PM »
For any wh are interested, go to www.leverguns.com and click on "Cartride Drawings" These are the sme drawings in the back of the NRA hardback publication "Handloading" published in 1982. You will find both cartridge and chamber drawings for the 375 and 38-55 Winchester. Might serve to solve some problems.
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Offline cheatermk3

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 04:06:05 PM »
Thanks for the link!

Offline missed_shot

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2005, 04:16:40 PM »
handirifle - do you have a number for Boer bullets??? I can't find any info??
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Offline riverjackal

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Recovered Bullets
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2005, 10:01:46 PM »
Cheatermk3,
 Have you recovered any of those .375 bullets that you say shoot good in your gun to check for rifling marks ? I shot some .375 speer bullets in my 38-55 target and none of the recovered bullets had rifling marks, meaning to me that they did not engage the rifling in my gun.
 Hope you have good results with your rifle, I will never give mine up but I wish we had more support for reloading the round.

Offline handirifle

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2005, 10:36:44 PM »
mished-shot
Here is the address Boer Bullet Co. 516 Park Ave., Medford OR 97501, they didn't list the phone number.  Here is and article about them.

Hope this helps
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Offline cheatermk3

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Re: Recovered Bullets
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2005, 01:31:23 AM »
Quote from: riverjackal
Cheatermk3,
 Have you recovered any of those .375 bullets that you say shoot good in your gun to check for rifling marks ? I shot some .375 speer bullets in my 38-55 target and none of the recovered bullets had rifling marks, meaning to me that they did not engage the rifling in my gun.
 Hope you have good results with your rifle, I will never give mine up but I wish we had more support for reloading the round.


I have not recovered any of them, but when I first shot the rifle, I tried Winchester fasctory ammo, which functioned in the action and grouped OK at 50 yds.  They were making nice round holes.  Then I tried .380" cast bullets which wouldn't fit right in the chamber.  So then i tried some jacketed bullets, which keyholed at 25, let alone 50.  I tried the Hornady .375" 270 grain interlock.  When these keyholed badly at 50, I thought perhaps they were too heavy for my rifle's twist, so I got some bullets designed to be used in 375 winchester ammo, all I could find.  They are 220 and 250 grain Speer and Hornady bullets, I'm at work and don't have the numbers handy.  I can push a .375" diameter bullet through my bore using a cleaning rod, with no more effort than it takes to push a loosely-fitting patch thru it.  "This will never work", I thought.
Since I was having other issues with the rifle, I sent it back to the factory, where they replaced the latch and fitted the barrel to the frame so that it now locks up the way it should.  They also ran a brand-new carbide reamer into the chamber, which gave me a bit more room but still not enuff to chamber the properly sized bullets for my .376/.379 lands/grooves bore.

then i finally tried JPH45's suggestion to size the loaded round, which works great.  I now simply decap, reprime, charge, seat a .380" hardcast bullet, and VERY lightly size the loaded round, which aligns the bullet in the case and also reduces the outside diameter by approximately .002".  Note that I do not resize the fired case when loading the .380" cast bullets, my fired cases come out of the chamber at .397" and the new bullets are held pretty tightly, then they go into the sizing die for what amounts to a good taper crimp.
I still had a nagging question in my mind, which was, "Howcome the factory ammo stabilised in my bore, but my handloads, loaded with virtually the same bullet, does not?"  When it comes to reloading ammo, I do not like mysteries.

The answer, of course, is that the factory ammo's bullet is obturating, or "bumping up", to groove diameter, or at least enough to engage the rifling, while mine were not.  How can this be? I asked myself.  Maybe the factory ammo uses a slightly larger diameter bullet, it was suggested, by JPH45, and others.  The theory went that the slightly larger, .377" bullet would obturate in the bore, being just barely large enough to engage the lands, which would cause the pressure behind it to bump it up to bore diameter and spin it, thus stabilizing it's flight.
I disproved this theory by dismantling a factory round and measuring the bullet.  It was .375".  Since SOMETHING was causing obturation, I thought, "maybe it's the crimp; could it be that the factory crimp, which is VERY stout, is holding the bullet in the case long enough to effect the bumping up to occur in the chamber, before the bullet even leaves the case?  I was quite sceptical that this could be the case, but when I got my hands on a factory crimp die, the jacketed bullets I was using began to hit the target nose-on, as evidenced by the perfectly round holes in the paper.

So, that's my theory on what's going on with .375" bullets in my .376/.379 barrel.  I suppose now I'll have to build me a bullet trap and finish the experiment by miking a recovered bullet.

Offline missed_shot

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2005, 02:41:16 AM »
HANDI - THANKS - I'LL TRY TO CONTACT THEM :D
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Offline riverjackal

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2005, 03:56:12 AM »
cheatermk3 said
 
"So, that's my theory on what's going on with .375" bullets in my .376/.379 barrel. I suppose now I'll have to build me a bullet trap and finish the experiment by miking a recovered bullet."

cheatermk3,
 I shot mine into a sandbank at the river and found them with a shovel, no sign of rifling on them. They were speer 235 grain spire point bullets.
 Thanks for the info, I will try some Hornady 220 grain .375 bullets.

Offline jason280

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2005, 05:15:16 AM »
If you're going to simply fireform from .30-30 brass, why not just buy .375 Winchester brass?  I see it for sale quite often on eBay.

Besides, other than the loadings of the original .38-55, what is the difference between the .38-55 and the .375?
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Offline JPH45

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2005, 05:42:43 AM »
jason280, case length a nd weight. The 375 is shorter by at least .060, and the 375 is also heavier as it is makde for higher pressures. For practical purposes, the differences can be ignored.

Just an idea guys, have any of you taken your Speer or Hornady bullets and bumped up the diameter in a sizing die? I would think it would be no great feat to stick one in a .379 sizer in one's lubersizer, bear down on it and bump the diameter up. The Le seating die is .380 in the area where the seating stem rides, it also strikes me that an enterprising fella could figure out how to use the seating die to bump the diameter of a jacketed bullet up. I also wonder if a die that would fit one's press could be had from Corbin. Since we are only talking about .003"-.004" seems it would be easy enough, reliable and would not affect the overall performance of the bullet. Worth some research I would think.
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Offline quickdtoo

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2005, 07:02:59 AM »
Why not just buy 38-55 brass from Cabelas????

Winchester 38-55 brass $41 a 100 shipped
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Offline JPH45

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2005, 09:56:30 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Why not just buy 38-55 brass from Cabelas????

Winchester 38-55 brass $41 a 100 shipped


I didn't check, so it may be that this is in stock there, but it is not uncommon to find it listed in a catalog (online or paper) only to call and find it out of stock. For a supposedly obsolete cartridge, somebody is sure shooting this stuff up. Must be a lot of closet 38-55aholics out there :roll:
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Offline quickdtoo

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38/55 brass ??
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2005, 10:01:11 AM »
It's in stock, when you add it to your cart, it tells you if it's in stock or not.... :wink:
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain