Author Topic: ballistic tip (Read 2618 times)

billy · « **on:** October 22, 2004, 05:34:35 PM »

Are ballistic tip bullets good for deer hunting?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2004, 06:01:51 PM »

kombi1976 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2004, 09:09:40 PM »

Are they any good with goats?
I'm interested in using the .257 cal 87gr or 100gr Nosler Ballisitc tips.

Bob the Cynic · « **Reply #3 on:** October 23, 2004, 06:40:30 AM »

Depends on the range and velocity. At close range and high velocity I've found that they tend to blow up and not penetrate well. Just my $0.02

Lawdog · « **Reply #4 on:** October 23, 2004, 02:11:07 PM »

billy,

As 'Bob the Cynic' had to say it all depends on the range, cartridge and what you expect out of a bullet. Ballistic Tip's have a tendency to break apart at velocities over 2,850 fps.. My experience using them in three different calibers(.257, .277 and .308) and I would recommend you using the AccuBond bullet instead if the rifle you are using has a velocity of over 2,850 fps.. Lawdog

kombi1976 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 23, 2004, 04:18:35 PM »

Quote from: Lawdog

billy,

As 'Bob the Cynic' had to say it all depends on the range, cartridge and what you expect out of a bullet. Ballistic Tip's have a tendency to break apart at velocities over 2,850 fps.. My experience using them in three different calibers(.257, .277 and .308) and I would recommend you using the AccuBond bullet instead if the rifle you are using has a velocity of over 2,850 fps.. Lawdog

Lawdog, when you say 2850fps, do you mean muzzle velocity or impact velocity? Because my round pushes them at about 2900fps out of the barrel but I'm almost certain they don't hit anywhere near that hard, unless of course it's really close.
Out of interest, how much more expensive are the Accubond as compared to the Ballistic Tips?

Buffalogun · « **Reply #6 on:** October 23, 2004, 05:51:26 PM »

billy,

Remember, there are two families of Ballistic Tip bullets. Those made for varmints and those made for big game!

Buffalogun

Lawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2004, 08:36:36 AM »

kombi1976,

The largest caliber Varmint Ballistic Tip is the 85 gr. .257. Go to http://www.nosler.com/chartvarmint.html to see them. The hunting version of Ballistic Tips I tried were the 115 gr. .257(in my .25-06 and .257 Weatherby), the 140 gr. .277(.270 Weatherby) and the 165 gr. .308(in my .30-06, .300 Weatherby). No luck with any of them. Called Nosler and it was their technician that told me they were designed to work at velocities up to 2,850 fps.. So I took their advice and tried them in cartridges that delivered less than 2,900 fps. at the muzzle and they seemed to work. Tried the 115 gr. in my .250 Savage but accuracy wasnt what I liked(the .250 Savage does better with 100 gr. bullets).

Just for example below is the current prices from Midway on 180 gr. .308 Nosler bullets.

Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 180 Grain Spitzer Box of 50
Product #: 605175
Status: Available
Our Price: $11.45

Nosler Partition Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 180 Grain Spitzer Box of 50
Product #: 627066
Status: Available
Our Price: $19.49

Nosler AccuBond Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 180 Grain Spitzer Box of 50
Product #: 113331
Status: Available
Our Price: $18.20

Ballistic Tip - $.23 per bullet
Partition - $.39 per bullet
AccuBond - $.37 per bullets

Is anyone going to worry about a few pennys when the only thing connecting you to the animal you shoot is the bullet? Not I, that is why I use Partitions(and Barnes bullets now). They have done what they were designed to do for more years then I have been using them(40 plus). Good luck and good hunting. Lawdog

longwinters · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2004, 01:19:43 PM »

LD is correct. We have used BT's for several years and with impact velocities under 2900 you will probably get complete penetration but real big holes. I have since gone to Accubonds and Partitions. For deer size game I think the Accubonds are the way to go. Partitions for anything bigger.

Long

acearch72 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2004, 03:22:43 PM »

I've tried ballistic tips in both 264 WinMag and 30-06 with VERY poor results in both cases. I would not recommend them even though others have had good success.

Like Lawdog I was immediately back to Partitions, even though this year I am going to see if my 7Mag likes the Accubonds.

Lawdog,

I have had not so good results with Barnes. My 7Mag just won't shoot them at all. All over the paper with no consistency. Also, I lost 2 deer last year with my Lazzaroni 308 Patriot with 130gr Barnes Lazzaroni loads. Maybe just too much velocity for a little 30 cal bullet, but no blood trail on either.

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2004, 12:20:54 PM »

acearch72,

Quote

I have had not so good results with Barnes. My 7Mag just won't shoot them at all. All over the paper with no consistency. Also, I lost 2 deer last year with my Lazzaroni 308 Patriot with 130gr Barnes Lazzaroni loads. Maybe just too much velocity for a little 30 cal bullet, but no blood trail on either.

Is the inconsistent groups coming from the old Barnes X/XLC bullets? If so try the newer TSX versions. Much easier to get to group well. Those deer you lost, any chance the hits were high lung shots? A high lung shots and you won't get blood trail for some distance using Barnes bullets. The biggest exit hole I have had this year was 2(+/-) inches. Out of 13 bucks taken by my family this year not one Barnes TSX bullet was recovered. Lawdog

billy · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2004, 02:33:24 PM »

So with the lower volecity of 7mm-08 of 2800 this bullet should work ok for deer? I will shoot it out of model 7 with 20 inch barrel.

acearch72 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2004, 05:04:04 PM »

Lawdog,

Tried both X and XLC in my 7Mag. Same results. Took a 1/2"MOA Kleingunther all the way to 4" +.

The Lazarroni 308 Patriot shoots the 130Gr Lazarroni lubricated Barnes X ok at about 1" MOA but it's pretty fast at almost 3600fps muzzle. I shot a doe at abt. 100 yds. broadside with this last year and she just jumped up about 5ft. and looked at me. I was so surprized that she didn't hit the ground that I didn't even bolt the rifle. I just kept waiting for her to fall over. When she ran into a thicket, I could see blood on the offside, so I know there was full penetration, but it was one of those "raining straight down" days and the delimma of look now and risk running her further or wait a while and hope she laid down. I chose to wait for 2 hours, but no bannana, no blood, no deer after 3 of us looked for 6 hours. I know that my 7Mag with the 160 gr NP would have put that deer down, and so should have the Patriot. Maybe my fault, but I think it was a good shot. If I had not have had confidence on a drop dead kill I would not have shot in the rain. I absolutely hate to lose a deer.

This year, I'm going to put the Lazarroni up (until I can find a good load for it) and go back to my 7Mag and try the Accubonds to see how they shoot and then decide on either the proven NP or the NAB.

Anybody have any thoughts on the 140gr NP in 7Mag? They really work great in my 264 Win mag and I was thinking of giving them a whirl in my 7 instead of the 160gr NP.

Lawdog · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2004, 10:21:46 AM »

acearch72,

Using 140 gr. Nosler Partition in my 7mm Remington Magnum I use 65.3 gr. of H4831. In my 7mm Weatherby Magnum I use 75.0 gr. of H4831 using the same bullet. Remember with any load you get given to you start under the stated charge level(I start 10% under) and work up.[/i] Just to be on the safe side. Lawdog

acearch72 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2004, 04:11:09 PM »

LD,

do you prefer the 140gr or the 160gr for the 7mm RemMag? Hunting for whitetail deer.

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2004, 08:26:55 AM »

acearch72,

For Whitetail, Mule or Blacktail deer I prefer the 140 gr. Nosler Partition. Lawdog

Bob the Cynic · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2004, 09:19:13 AM »

Quote

So with the lower volecity of 7mm-08 of 2800 this bullet should work ok for deer? I will shoot it out of model 7 with 20 inch barrel.

Billy,

Last year I shot a 170 pound buck at 40 yards with my model 7 in .260 Rem. I had never used BTs before and I was getting great groups with 120g Nosler BTs at the range so I decided to see how they would perform on deer. The buck dropped at the shot, but when I examined the animal I found that the bullet hit a rib, blew up, and left a baseball sized entrance wound. :eek: Not surprisingly the bullet did not exit.

So while I can't say that the bullet failed, as the deer was quite dead, I was more than a little disconcerted by the bullet's performance. I personally prefer a bullet that is going to hold together and penetrate completely.

So while BTs may have their place, in my experience, limited as it is, close range shooting isn't it. I'm using partitions this year.

Buffalogun · « **Reply #17 on:** October 27, 2004, 11:55:45 AM »

billy,

I use the Ballistic Tips in some cartridges, but I'm not a fan of the Partition. I think the Speer Grand Slam is a better premium bullet and it's not all that expensive. It stays together for me.

Buffalogun

kombi1976 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2004, 01:51:12 PM »

Would it be safe to say then that the ballisitic tips are best for light to medium soft skinned game with medium velocity rounds?
It seems the most problems encountered mentioned here are from heavier animals and high velocities.

acearch72 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2004, 04:52:45 PM »

kombi1976,

I would say NO to your statement. The BT is NOT a good bullet for anything at velocity of 2800 fps plus. They just tend to blow up.

LD,

I tried the 7mm RemMag 160gr Nosler Accubonds and the 140gr Nosler Partitions over the weekend. Both shot about 3/4". Both seemed to group better than the 160gr NP that I have been using. I think I'm going to try the 160gr NAB and keep a box of 140gr NP as backup. Both had about the same POI at 100yds.

kenscot · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2005, 01:44:02 PM »

I have had great results with BT's in my 243 & 3006 I also like partitions for me it is what ever shoots better the rifle I choose to use.I hated the old barnes bullets could not get them to shoot consistently in any rifle perhaps that is why they came out with a new version I will haveto give them a try are they as long as the old one's? I always felt that was part of the accuracy bug with them

while99 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2005, 02:37:17 PM »

Shoot partitions and be done with it.

Don Fischer · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2005, 05:04:41 AM »

Where do you think that little plastic tip goes when a ballistic tip hit's something? There's only one place to go and that's back into the bullet. It's kinda like a splitting maul for bullet's. I think the ballistic tip type bullet's are great as varmit bullet's but that's it.

If memory serves me, the origional purpose of the B.T. was to keep bullet nose's from being deformed in the magazine. What happened was a splitting maul was added. And as it turn's out, I don't buy the deformed bullet bit anyway although I know it happen's.

We like to see nice perfect bullet's but I recall that when Speer brought out the mag tip they also showed a photo of a bullet leacing the barrel. The tip was gone! I'm not sure where but it was gone. Probally the friction in the barrel and in the air creates enough heat to soften the lead enought to melt off the tip, that's not a sizeable chunk of lead on the tip. Of course the mag tip never set the world on fire but then American's like sleek thing's like ballistic tip's,,,even if they don't work all that well.

If the only shot's you ever took at deer were broadside and you never cliped a shoulder, the B.T. would kill like lightning and nobody ea's the lung's anyway.

JBS · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2005, 07:11:08 AM »

Quote from: Bob the Cynic

Depends on the range and velocity. At close range and high velocity I've found that they tend to blow up and not penetrate well. Just my $0.02

I agree/have experienced same issue,sure group nice though

kombi1976 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2005, 02:53:07 PM »

I guess if you're shooting elk or big whitetails and mule deer then it isn't perhaps the best bullet.
Perhaps more suitable for slightly smaller game.
Do keep in mind though that practically everyone has said that they group well.
If that's the case then a hunter can choose his shots more carefully and be less concerned about variation in impact area.
If it groups tight there is far more indication that it'll put the bullet where you want it and that seems to be an important issue with this bullet. :|
But that's just my 2 cents worth. :wink:

On a related point I'll be testing some loads for my 8x57 k98 tomorrow on a 50m indoor range using both 180gn Ballistic Tips and 170gn Speer Hot-Cor semi-spitzers.
If you're interested in the performance of the Noslers versus the Speers keep an eye out for a range report on the 8x57 in the Military Service Forum.
Lookin' forward to it actually.
Should give all those small bore dudes with their .22LRs, .223s and .222s the shock of their lives. :-D
BOOM!!!!!!! :biggun: :eek: :twisted: :mrgreen:

P.S. Got a solution for the "nice perfect bullet" preference of the public.
Why not create a spitzer that has a very thin plastic coating over the lead tip?
It could be colour coded, just like the B/T bullets and would prevent some deformation of the tip in the magazine while not having the desintergratory effect that the B/T has.

drdougrx · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2005, 03:22:00 PM »

Just because you asked.

I've used BTs quite alot in the last couple of years. I've shot hogs, goats, sheep, whitetails, fallow, etc. I used 243 and 270 with the heavier weights for caliber. For example, I shoot 150gr BTs in my 270 at 2920fps and 95gr BTs in my 243 at 3010fps and have not had any problems at all. I switched from partitions because the lighter weights (IE 130gr in 270) seemed to drill right through unless I hit a heavy bone or whatever. Having said that....I'm switching to accubonds because I think they will give me BT accuracy with most of the partition penetration. IF they don't seem to work.....well....partitions it will be until I can't hold a rifle.

Doug

147 Grain · « **Reply #26 on:** May 13, 2005, 01:01:03 PM »

I love Nosler's Ballistic Tips in a 30-06 and prefer the heavier weights to tame down the violant explosion a bit and ensure plenty of penetration.

kombi1976 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:47:26 PM »

A quick update.
I tested those 2 types of 8mm bullets, the Speer 170gns and Nosler 180gn BTs in the indoor range.
In a turn up for the books the Speer Semi-Spitzers were creating tiny groups and I had all sorts of trouble putting the BTs on the paper. :shock:
I'm sure it's load development and the fact that my eyes were watering in the low light with the open sights.
I look forward to seeing what they can really do when the Mauser gets a scope and I can see what I'm doing.