Still fighting with 25-06 accuracy

[Zeak]

I'm still working on getting  it to group around 1". I tried 117gr. btsp Horn. with 51gr of H-4831, still only about a 2" group which is the best so far. 100gr Horn. sp were about a 3-4" groups with different loads of H-4831. The rifle has around 120 rds or more shot though it. Its been cleaned 4 times with Shooters Choice. Have been full length resizing, went to neck only and seated to COL. of 3.165, haven't shot these yet,wind blowing to hard today. Have the Leopold high mounts with 3x9x40 Swift scope, would like to use the med., but don't think the scope will clear the hammer. The rifle is the Ultra with the Monty Carlo stock. It still feels like my chin is raising of the stock. This morning I took a peace of pipe insulation,the kind that fits over 1" pipe, and taped it to the top of the stock,will try this and see if it helps.  Need any help I can get or this barrel will find a new home!
Zeak

[quickdtoo]

Finding the right load with some Handis can be a bit frustrating sometimes, but you will find it, eventually, you're going to have to try difference charges of powder to find the load it likes, hopefully sooner than later you'll hit upon a load that has good accuracy.....I've only shot factory ammo in my 25-06 Ultra, the 115gr Federal Nosler partitions shoot the best, first 2 shots out of a cold barrel will almost touch, the 3rd will open the group to just shy of 1", to find that load, I went thru at least 6 different factory offerings.  I mount all of my scopes with Burris Signature Zee rings, medium usually, sometimes high depending on the scope's power ring size and position in reference to the hammer. For reference, the medium sig zees are .270" tall and the highs are .420" tall. Here's my .25-06 Ultra with Burris FFII 3-9x40 mounted in medium rings.....

[Mac11700]

I use a thin piece of ruba-tex pipe insulation under a Uncle Mike's shell holder... I've been advocating this for several years...it won't move if you cut a hole on the shell holder for the rear swivel stud...and allows you to pull your face in good and snug and keep it there when shooting.

Check the lock up on yor barrel and make sure it's good and tight with out any side to side movement...I do this with the forearm off...and make sure you have no gap between the barrel and receiver...the tighter the lock up...the better the accuracy...take a feeler gauge...and check this...all of mine lock up tight on a .0015 gauge...you can pull it out...but you have to apply allow of force to do it....002" is ok too...I think Quicks rifles are this way...and his shoot's real good...

How much of a trigger pull do you have... Since I've gotten mine back from NEF...it is below 3lbs...no creep in it at all...just the usual amount of over travel these triggers have when done by them...you have to make sure your pulling all the way thru with the trigger...not just letting it break and releasing...it takes a bit to learn how to do this after shooting bolt guns...

Quick is right on the money about finding a good load...I got real lucky in that regard...I went with the Winchester Supreme 115gr Ballistic Silvertip...and it shoots them great...but...I went thru a-lot to prep the barrel prior to doing any shooting...flitz...shooter choice foaming bore cleaner...CR-10...the flushing it completely with Rem-oil between and patching it dry...and the swabbing the chamber out with alcohol and q-tips...that's basiclly how I do all my Handi's...and mine are pretty accurate...

There is a bunch of other tricks to try....to get them to shoot like they should...try using the search feature and you'll see...the 25-06's are definatly a love-hate relationship...

Mac

[aulrich]

I have to throw in my vote for lock-up and load. I don't know if you have tried but sometimes (actually more often then not) an o-ring under the barrel lug helps (search on quick's id and you'll find a good post) also search for fredm he has a personal site documenting his time with a 25-06.

Also I am not sure how new you are to handi's but when shooting for groups, you most likely need to be resting on or very near to the barrel hinge.

An again for emphasis, I did not do it with my 243 but I did with my 204 back off from max 10% and go up by .5 grains until 1 grain from max then .2 (Thanks Quick).  With my 204 I got good groups @ 28 grains then it opened up for 28.5 and 29 then tightened up @ 29.5 and opened up @ 30 with pressure signs @ 30.5 max was 31.7.

[Ricci Price]

I am the in same boat with 25-06 accuracy, there is no problem with getting accuracy with lighter bullets in this gun(75,87,90), but when you get to the 100 grain bullets (same as yours 100grain hornady spire point) accuracy starts to fall off best I have got is about an inch or so with slow burning powder 52grains IMR4831, if I go to renowned accuracy load of 52 grains of IMR4350 it will shoot about a two inch group. Now that being said, what pressure effects this has on this gun is seen very easy, now just maybe an even slower burning powder would help even more but loss of speed is a concern I didn't buy a 25-06 to shoot it at a medium speed thats not what it is known for. I have done several things to increase my accuracy starting with forearm, bedded it about 1" past the forearm screw with belzona then floated it with silicon rubber from front to back this gives it full length padding it gave me about a half inch or more accuracy, next is the underlug, my lock up was not true to the receiver had a gap on one side at lock-up, in my case I welded up the underlug (filled in the half circle for hinge pin) and remilled so it would fit the receiver square this took about three 12 hour night shifts to get it right. Also locking lug, notched it out to fully engage the under lug (cut a notch in it where it meets the frame so it would stick out further, did not take much off, don't want it to be weak)My accuracy did increase after all this tinkering but I am still not happy with it ,happier but not happy. I have had this gun for about two years and have shot it close to 600 times everything has been with reloads. I have tried several different powders, bullets, and loads, best load I have got for it is 58 grains of IMR4831 behind 90 grain sierra bthp it will shoot 1" at 200 yards, or about half inch at a hundred, 75's will shoot better than this but I would not deer hunt with them.

[Ditchdigger]

I was really happy with mine at first,but then things started happening for the worse. First off the Rem corlokts shot 3" groups. I put the businss cards (3 strips) before the forend floated,and it shot the same 100 gr corlokts into 1.25". This made me want to reload for more accurcy. I went through 3 bullet types,3 differant primers,and 2 powders with countless combo's of weights with each powder. As soon as I used the CCI primers with the 75 gr. Vmax's it dropped under a inch. I'm getting around 3/4" consistantly, with this bullet and 56.5 grs. of IMR 4350. This is a max load,and when I went half a grain on higher the groups opened way up. Hildy is getting about the same with the same load. When I get somemore time I'll try the 100 gr. and the 87 gr. with the same primers and powder and let everyone know the outcome. I also use a bipod on the front and a bag on the rear. The scope is on 18 pr. and it will steady down to about .030 movement of the crosshairs at 100 yds. It should shoot into one hole with this kind of rest,but it wont.   Digger

[safetysheriff]

I think it would be worth a try using Reloder 19 and the Federal 210 primer to see if accuracy doesn't improve.    The Alliant Powder website should give you some suggestions for max loads which you can reduce for your starting point.

The rifle should be rested on a smooth, friction-free surface like a cotton towel -- not on a suede or leather bag.    It should be rested just in front of the very rear of the forearm, or even ahead of the forearm on the barrel if the barrel is sitting on a WAD of something very soft.     If a barrel sits against anything hard/solid it will cause the bullet to fly away from the hard surface.    

Good shooting to you,

SS'

[quickdtoo]

I have tried several different powders, bullets, and loads, best load I have got for it is 58 grains of IMR4831 behind 90 grain sierra bthp it will shoot 1" at 200 yards, or about half inch at a hundred, 75's will shoot better than this but I would not deer hunt with them.

Ricci, are ya sure you don't mean H4831? My Hodgdon annual show 58gr of H4831 as a max load, and with IMR 4831 being a faster powder, that sounds like it might be too hot....?

[Ricci Price]

I have got several different loading books all of them show different loading data (starting weight and max weight) for different calibers  actually the Speer manual says 59 grains is max of IMR4831, I and most people should use these manuals as reference, not as a law, always start low and work your way up while at least shooting 5 of your test loads and check for pressure signs. There so many varibles that can change pressures that it is wise to start low. Hey, Quick, look at imrpowder.com they have got the same data posted on their site.

[Mac11700]

I have got several different loading books all of them show different loading data (starting weight and max weight) for different calibers  actually the Speer manual says 59 grains is max of IMR4831, I and most people should use these manuals as reference, not as a law, always start low and work your way up while at least shooting 5 of your test loads and check for pressure signs. There so many varibles that can change pressures that it is wise to start low. Hey, Quick, look at imrpowder.com they have got the same data posted on their site.

 
Not to be argumentative...but the latest Speer #13 shows a max charge of IMR 4831 as 56.0 grains for the Speer 100 grain bullets...not Sierra's......The Sierra 5th edition list 54.9 grains for the 87gr SPT and the 90 gr. HPBT as a max load...and 53.8 grains for their 100 grain bullets...the IMR web site list a compressed charge of 59 grains for the 87 grain Sierra...while these small differences may not seem extravagent...they do show the need for all reloaders to have the latest reference manuals... and not to extrapolate data for 1 manufactures bullet for another...especially when working at or near the maximum charge weights...Getting in the Habit of  changing components...any componet...for 1 manufactures recommended loads...to another...be it...the brass...bullet...primer...can lead to problems...sometimes severe...
 
Granted these are book values...and we've all nudged the max charge line from time to time...and what the manufactures publish is shot from different rifles or test barrels...but for the benefit of our beginning reloaders...we should always state...as you have Ricci... Always start low and work your way up to the higher charge weights checking for signs of pressure increase along the way...Even though you've been at it for years...just like a-lot of us have...there are quite a few that are just starting out...and don't know yet..what is safe and not...let's err on the safe side...for their sake.....

Mac

[Ricci Price]

Yes, I agree with you, my speer manual is very old, I also agree that changing any one of your components while working up a load only means you are asking for trouble. I also agree that maybe we should not post near max loads but I guess I got carried away and not thinking of the relative dangers.(I was just thinking about makin it shoot straight)I usually write in my loading quotes "what is safe in mine may not be safe in yours" and I think most people should adhere to this because there is just to many variables.

[quickdtoo]

For anyone considering swapping load data between any IMR and Hodgdon powder load data, please check out this link....

http://www.egpworld.com/RELOADING/POWDERS/1/BURN_RATES.htm

specifically the statement at the bottom of the page...

* (In manuals or writings published before 1973, any mention of 4831 will refer to Hodgdon's H4831. In older manuals, it was customary to list powder simply as "4831" with no designation connecting it to the Hodgdon line. The reason for this is simple; prior to DuPont's introduction of IMR 4831 in 1972, the surplus 4831 sold by Hodgdon was the only powder to carry this designation. Despite their similar nomenclature, these two powders (IMR 4831 and Hodgdon H4831) are not interchangeable and must not be confused. IMR 4831 is significantly faster burning than H4831, and may produce dangerous pressures if used with data developed for the latter.)

Having researched this subject, also found that there have been at least 5 versions of 4831 powders produced over the years, so I would be real apprehensive about using any 4831 load data if I weren't using currently available powders and data.

Here are some more links of interest....

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/burnrates.cfm

http://www.aeroballisticsonline.com/ballistics/imrpowder.html

http://www.lasc.us/ConversionTables.htm


And a link specific to the 25-06...

http://www.quarterbore.com/library/articles/2506.html

Maybe Mac or Duce would like to add some of this info to the FAQ for future reference??

Tim

[Mac11700]

Quick:

Thanks for all those links...there is some great information there for all to save...that's for sure...I added to the FAQ's...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

Thanks Mac!!! :agree:  :agree: :agree: