Author Topic: Resizing bottleneck cartridges in the Contender (Read 1055 times)

Straight Shooter · « **on:** February 17, 2003, 12:49:36 PM »

How do you guys resize brass for bottleneck cartridges? I have read not to neck size, full length size only, but don't bump the shoulder. Just curious to see what procedures people use.

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2003, 01:09:38 PM »

This will be a can of worms! Personally I full length size. And yes you do want to bump the shoulder back. When you resize a case, you squeeze the case body diameter down a little. Material moves forward when you do this causing the case to grow in length. If you dont bump the shoulder back then you have to force the lengthened case body into the action under preasure. I believe this is what causes most miss-fires in TCs. Too much preasure and the action doesnt close completely. I have neck sized only for contenders with mixed results. My 223 doesn't seen to care, but my 35 rem will throw me fits. I quit doing it in my TCs and can't really tell any accuracy loss. This is just my experience, and my $.02 on the subject. You will probably be bombarded with differeing opinions on this. I sugest you try it and find out if it works for you. I wouldnt go loading a lot of rounds untill I was sure my gun will tolerate it or not. When you resize, I would take a resized case and insert it into the chamber and be sure it closes easily. If not bump the shoulder back untill it does. KN

KYODE · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2003, 02:04:41 PM »

you have to make the ammo fit the gun. lots of people have no problems neck sizing for these guns. BUT, you may not have the luck lots of people have. i tried partial sizing for my vvcg 6br encore barrel. it didn't size the case down enough. it left them almost too tight to work at all. the action would barely close, even by force. SO, neck sizing will NOT work for all barrels. it's just gonna depend on a combination of your reloading skills,the load, your barrel or chamber,etc. if the brass grows too large, you'll have to squeeze it back down just a little.
i've also full length sized till the die bottomed out, like the usual instructions that come with dies say to do. this was when i first started loading several years ago. BAD MOVE, this left too much headspace. i had one case separation. it fell apart after i took it out of the chamber. bottom line, make the ammo fit YOUR gun.

helobill · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2003, 05:00:30 PM »

KYODE,
Nicely put. Probably the last of the non-emotional responses however. This subject seems to really rile folks up for some reason. I'm not back into reloading yet, that's this summer's project, but I think you gave the best advice from what I've read...make the ammo fit the gun, whether that means neck only, bump the shoulder or full resize do what you gotta do to make it shoot right.

KN, roger on the can of worms, should be fun to watch.

Helicopter Bill

T/C nimrod · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2003, 01:49:10 AM »

Straight shooter, I must be in the minority. Can only speak from working with my barrels, but I neck size only after the brass has formed to the cylinder. Knock on wood, I've never had a reason to question sizing this way; accuracy is better than the shooter some days, case life is not an issue - some of my brass is on #17, can't remember the last time I had to trim (excluding fire forming new brass), and never had to deal with extraction problems. Now, for the record, the majority of my loads are not above maximum listings.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2003, 03:21:04 AM »

Years ago when TC put out dies for their gun, the instructions for bottle necked cartridges stated to adjust the resizing die by turning it in an 1/8 of a turn at a time until it took a sharp snap to close the action. At that that point the brass was sized properly. This was especially true in the .223 and the 7TCU. What you were doing when you do this is just slightly resizing the case and just barely bumping the shoulder. Brass will last longer doing this also.

Just keep in mind that an 1/8 of a turn is roughly about .009 on an inch movement. The difference between a Go and No Go head space guage is .004. It won't take much to over resize your brass. If you push the shoulder back you will experience misfires.

If the shoulder is set backduring firing the firing pin will push the cartridge forward in the chamber until the case bottoms out and cushion the blow. Hard primers like CCI will misfire. But I have had Federal misfire also.

One other thing you can do to make brass last longer in the TC is to index it. Take a file and cut a small knotch in the rim. When you load a cartridge in the chamber align this notch with one side or the other of the extractor cut out. Do this evertime and brass life is extended. This is a critical factor in the TCU.

It seems that every new generation of TC shooters has to learn this. I know I found this out by accident 20 years ago, by reading the instruction booklet after I was having problems and someone at a shooting match told me to look it up.

I haven't bought a new TC product for a few years. I know they use to put this in their instruction booklet. But It seems to me that last instruction book I saw was so full of the liability disclaimers that who bothered to read it.

By the way the 35 Remington is very sensitve to having it's shoulder moved back, and not just in the TC, the XP-100, Remington pump gun and Marlin in 35 Remington all suffer from misfires from over sized reloads.

Eric · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2003, 06:25:13 AM »

Double D

You wrote:

"One other thing you can do to make brass last longer in the TC is to index it. Take a file and cut a small knotch in the rim. When you load a cartridge in the chamber align this notch with one side or the other of the extractor cut out. Do this evertime and brass life is extended. This is a critical factor in the TCU."

How does this extend brass life?

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2003, 03:37:09 PM »

Straight Shooter, You have already gotten some GOOD answers. I'll add only one thought. KN said make the brass fit the gun and I agree, once you've found that SWEET SPOT w/ your die, LOCK DOWN the locking ring, tighten the set screw so you don't lose it. Now every time you size the brass its automatic, if it needs full length sizeing it gets it, if the brass still fits the chamber it only will be neck sized.
Hey Double D, I thought I was the only one in the world who ever read the part about the notch. Works too, don't it.
GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2003, 03:42:19 PM »

OPPS...KYODE my most humble apologies, I think I just gave KN credit for your post. Sorry!! Well you both did good. Walt :oops: :oops:

Curtis · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2003, 05:49:28 PM »

Wow, indexing the brass.....never thought of that. I guess that after it was fired once, indexing would center up the cartridge neck with the throat every time regardless of chamber concentricity (or lack of). Of course if you are lucky enough to have a chamber perfectly centered with your bore, you don't gain anything. Am I on track here? Aside from brass life are there accuracy gains to be had using this method?

Curtis

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2003, 07:19:57 PM »

Some one mentioned that the case would be more concentric to the chamber and that is right

One thing that occurs when you shot your TC is that it springs. The bottom of the barrel is held by the hinge pin, the top is held by nothing. The minute amount of spring from this will stretch the case body and form the case to the chamber. The stretched portion will only be on the top of the case. You always want to put this stretched section back in the chamber the way it was formed, on top.

When you set your sizing die so that it takes a snap to close on a sized case, the only part of the shoulder that in theory that should be bumped is the top ever so slightly longer side.

If you don't index, the next time you fire you will get stretch some where else and the stretched section will be worked back. Then when you size again the whole case body gets pushed back and works the stretched area. the stretched area makes a thinned hardened weak spot on the body. Your case will evenually fail in the middle of the body.

I have had it happen in as little as two reloads. Especially with .223 and 7TCU's. When I shot IHMSA back in the early 80's there was seldom a match that someone didn't cuss about breaking a case.

Once I started indexing case life was greatly increased.

Some people even go so far as to index the round when they put it in the shell holder to resize.

FYI one other note along this line. If you do break a case and the front half gets stuck don't go digging at it witha screwdriver or pocket knife.. Get a bore brush just over chamber size and push it into the broken half of the case and then pull brush out. The case will be stuck in the brush.