Author Topic: Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????  (Read 1045 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DakotaElkSlayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 898
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« on: May 14, 2005, 06:28:57 PM »
I have been pondering this for quite awhile...why doesn't NEF make Handi-pistols?  It can't be all that difficult to do and then they could really compete with Thompson Center.  Just imagine....a handi-pistol and coming from NEF, the barrels would probably only cost $50-$70 a pop!

Jim
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein

Offline mitchell

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2067
  • Gender: Male
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2005, 07:13:06 PM »
i think they just haven't got to it yet. look at all the improvements they could make on the handi rifle when most of these have been done ( the biggest being not having to have the barrels fitted) then look for a handgun .



for the record lets keep this thread on "why doesn't NEF make Handi-pistols" not on how we can change the rifle to become one . i don't speak for graybeard's outdoors but i know they don't condone any illegal acts of planning to act on this site. just something to keep in mind (this isn't the first thread on this subject)
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline tallyho

  • Trade Count: (52)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1301
  • Gender: Male
  • DECEASED 6/6/2013
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2005, 07:51:41 PM »
There was a discussion about this a few months ago (unable to find the thread, maybe someone else can remember it) and the answer, if I remember correctly, goes something like this:

Apparently it would cost a bundle for Marlin/NEF to get the appropriate permits/BATF permission to manufacture handguns. The market is relatively small (compared to rifles) and most of it is already served by Thompson Center with the Contender.

There might have been some other comments, but I don't remember what they were...

Bottom line was: it ain't likely to happen.
DECEASED 6/6/2013

Offline Cookiemann

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
  • Apple Valley, MN
Legal stuff
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2005, 08:26:24 PM »
I remember reading that stuff too.  It would require H & R to come up with a whole different receiver.  Something about it being illegal to convert from rifle to pistol....I guess you can go from pistol to rifle, but not the other way around.
NOT ON MY WATCH

"AIM small...MISS small"

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Brett

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5148
  • Gender: Male
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2005, 01:25:44 AM »
Why isn't there a Handi pistol ? - Because there are lawyers.
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline DakotaElkSlayer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 898
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2005, 06:04:51 AM »
Thanks for the input guys...never knew their was a law about the rifles to pistol thing.

Jim
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

- Albert Einstein

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2005, 07:46:56 AM »
The way the laws are written T/C and Remington have a corner on that market.  They have Grandfather rights, they were making pistols using rifle cartridges before the law came into affect.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Nuttinbutchunks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 443
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2005, 03:51:13 PM »
>>(this isn't the first thread on this subject)<<

No it isn't. The last one got locked as I recall. :eek:
Ohhhh, I hate when that happens :eek:

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2005, 08:50:03 PM »
An idea I had come to mind lately was a rifle barrel cut to LEGAL standard but a pistol grip butstock from a Mossberg shotgun added.  If this would not satisfy the BATFE requirement of 26" overall length, then the barrel could be left a bit longer.

Obviously one should measure BEFORE cutting the barrel to be sure.

I think, from looking at pics, the Mossberg buttstock might do the trick.  It would be shot like a handgun but still be a LEGAL rifle.

Like this one
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline mitchell

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2067
  • Gender: Male
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2005, 05:23:54 AM »
well i think the only probblum handirifle is that most people wouldn't want to pack a 26inch long pistol.

i think the best thing to do would be to cut the barrel to 12-14 inches it just get it restampeed as a pistol. i was thinking i heard some where that it was $200. so that wouldn't be too bad. $200 for the rifle $40 for the pistol grip $30 for a new crown $200 for restamping (or whatever they do), that would be $470 for a handi pistol price wise that would put you right up there with the t/c but for a true handi lover (like myself) it just could be done. hummm :idea:

hey handirifle did you try that pistol grip on a handi to see if it fit??? and does anybody know if $200 is right for how much it cost to get it ok with the BATFE???
curiosity killed the cat , but i was lead suspect for a while

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2005, 08:58:01 AM »
mitchel,
Make sure you check with the BATFE BEFORE doing any of this work.  Even doing the work can be a crime if all bases are not covered.

Haven't fit it to NEF cause haven't bought it yet.  Will be soon though for 20 ga "house gun", and when I get it, I'll check it out.

True, 26" is long, but the TC with a 14 or 15" barrel isn't much shorter.  Receivers are similar.  Not sure if it can be done legally but worth looking into.  The down side would be if you had to pay the $200 for every caliber.  Have heard that before.  That would preclude getting extra barrels for it.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline jason280

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 539
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2005, 05:48:53 PM »
Quote
I remember reading that stuff too. It would require H & R to come up with a whole different receiver. Something about it being illegal to convert from rifle to pistol....I guess you can go from pistol to rifle, but not the other way around.


H&R would not be required to come up with a new receiver to sell pistols, as they could use the standard SB2 frame.  I'm not sure where this internet myth began, but you do not have to design a completely different frame in order to make a pistol version of the Handi Riflle (or a pistol version of any frame for that matter).  All it takes is the decision for H&R to enter the pistol market, which is unlikely at this current time.  

You see, the key is simply this:  In order for a frame to be made in to a pistol, it has to leave the factory in one of two ways.  One, it has to leave as a complete pistol, basically completely assembled as such at the factory.  Or two, it has to leave as a virgin receiver (stripped or complete receiver with no grip/stock or barrel).  By virgin, I mean the receiver isn't assembled in to either form of rifle or pistol.  However, when the receiver is purchased by a private consumer from an FFL holder, it must be labeled as either "PISTOL" or "OTHER" on the Form 4473.  It cannot be registered on the 4473 as a rifle and legally be made in to a pistol at any time.  It must be filled out as "OTHER" or "PISTOL" to be made in to pistol configuration.  So, buy a virgin receiver, mark it as "PISTOL" on the 4473, and you can legally make a Handi pistol.  

But, even getting a virgin receiver would mean H&R would have to sell receivers separately, which is also highly unlikely at this time.  However, I do think there would be a strong market for a Handi pistol, especailly if H&R expanded the caliber listings.  



Quote
hey handirifle did you try that pistol grip on a handi to see if it fit??? and does anybody know if $200 is right for how much it cost to get it ok with the BATFE???


Mitchell, I think you are confusing the short barrel rifle tax stamp here.  You can register a Handi as a NFA short barreled rifle, pay the $200 tax stamp, be approved, and subsequently mount any length barrel you want on the receiver.  It doesn't matter how many barrels you want to use on it, as the tax is only applied to the receiver.  Basically, you can have one registered SBR receiver and have as many rifled short barrels as you want.  But, once its a rifle, its always a rifle.  It can't be legally converted to pistol form, regardless of the $200 stamp.
"Hey Peter, check out Channel 9!!"

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2005, 08:13:55 PM »
Jason
I agree with most of what you said.  In talking with TC and the BATFE, at least the CA offices, a short barreled rifle is registered per caliber.  If you changed it to another caliber, in the short barrel version, it would have to be re-registered.  At least that was the way it sounded.

The more I think of it a 26" pistol isn't that bad.  Carry it in a over the shoulder sling or quiver, it would come to aim fairly easily.  It would sure be steady when rested against a tree.

Mitchel, give them a call and get your angle on the requirements.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!

Offline jason280

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 539
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2005, 09:37:42 AM »
Quote
a short barreled rifle is registered per caliber. If you changed it to another caliber, in the short barrel version, it would have to be re-registered


When you register a short barreled rifle, you must list the caliber you will be using with the receiver.  The key is, you can list as many calibers as you'd like (there is no limit). That's what we do with AR15 lowers.  You simply list whatever calibers you can imagine, and you will be OK to use those barrels once the lower has been registered.
"Hey Peter, check out Channel 9!!"

Offline handirifle

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3570
    • http://www.handirifle.com
Why isn't there a Handi-pistol????
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2005, 09:49:15 AM »
Quote
you can list as many calibers as you'd like (there is no limit).


Shucks, this old dog just learned a new trick.  I might just have to contact them and see what I can do.  One bad thing is I live in CA where their laws can be Draconian sometimes.

Worth a call the the Govmt though.
God, Family, and guns, in that order!