Author Topic: help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 1246 times)

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Offline .308sniper

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« on: May 10, 2005, 10:47:44 AM »
What kind if any cover should I use for deer.  I have had alot of unsuccessful seasons and am willing to do any thing to help.
have fun! get it done with a 308.

Offline Lawdog

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Re: help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 12:49:35 PM »
Quote from: Alex T
What kind if any cover should I use for deer.  I have had alot of unsuccessful seasons and am willing to do any thing to help.


Need a little more information before anyone can answer that.  What part of the country do you live and hunt in for starters?  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline Redhawk1

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2005, 12:58:01 PM »
Give us a little more details and I am sure we can help.  :D
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Offline .308sniper

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 12:52:51 AM »
I hunt in Va and in in the woods mostly still and stand.
have fun! get it done with a 308.

Offline iiibbb

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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 02:36:10 AM »
What part of Virginia?  Mountains, Piedmont, Coastal Plain?

Offline alsatian

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Help!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 03:53:35 AM »
I assume your problem is you aren't seeing deer.  If you see deer but they are too far away, you need to set-up closer.  If you shoot at deer but miss, you need to practice shooting at the rifle range.  These are pretty obvious, so I assume your problem lies elsewhere -- that you aren't seeing deer.

You must hunt where deer are.  Before the season scout your hunting ground looking for deer sign.  Look for deer hair on fences where deer may cross fencelines -- either crawling under or jumping over.  Look for deer tracks, particularly after substantial rain.  Look around ponds and creeks for deer tracks.  Look for deer poop.  If you see no sign of deer, your hunting ground may be bad.

Assuming you have found indications that deer frequent your hunting ground, you need to figure out the general behavior of your deer.  Others are more expert than I, but I can provide you some high level insights into this and leave the more sophisticated details to more veteran deer hunters.

Deer are a prey species.  Other animals want to eat deer, and deer want to avoid being eaten.  This explains much of deer behavior.  Deer want to stay out of sight.  They fear being eaten and avoid behaviors which raise their exposure above a flexible comfort threshold.  Typically, deer eat in low light conditions when they feel less vulnerable to attack and hide during daylight hours, lieing on beds where they spit up and chew their cud.  Deer often move from feeding areas to bedding areas at first morning light and from bedding areas to feeding areas at last evening light.  If hunter pressure is heavy, the deer may move before first light and after last light, making them very difficult to ambush.  Also, a full moon may result in the deer doing their movements at different hours and being out of sight during all daylight hours.  So, your best bet is to be in a stand overlooking a trail between feeding and bedding areas at first light and last light.  Once you have determined deer are present in your hunting ground, you want to figure out where the deer are going to eat and where they are going to bed.  Bedding grounds are often on the sides of hills (during the day, thermal wind currents go up hill, carrying the scent of predators to the deer) in brush or high grass or weeds, perhaps on the border of thicker cover that they can escape to in emergencies.  Feeding areas are where you find food -- acorns, apples, persimmons, etc.  You also should know where water sources are.  Figure out where the deer move, by looking for trails and footprints.  Remember as deer move from one area to another they like to have enough cover to be comfortable.  They won't take the densist, nastiest path -- because this will be harder, and deer are lazy just like us -- but they will follow a trail that offers enough cover that they feel comfortable.  This is a relative thing.

Look for low creek banks or shallow spots in creeks where it is easy to cross.  Look for "deer funnels" -- features of the land and cover that tend to encourage the deer to travel from point A to point B following this specific path.  For example, a narrow band of trees between a bedding area and a feeding area is likely to be a deer funnel, because a deer moving from one place to the other will avoid walking across open fields if there is a bit of cover they can follow instead.  A depression such as a shallow ditch may be a funnel because it may provide a sense of security and comfort to the deer when travelling through it versus walking open ground.  Set-up your ambush overlooking these deer funnels from a distance at which you feel comfortable shooting.  Too close makes it easier for the deer to detect your presence; too far makes the shot difficult or places obstructions in your firing lane.

Deer have very good senses.  You don't want them to smell you.  Make sure the wind is NOT blowing from you to the deer, or you will never see them.  The wind is preferably blowing from the deer to you or crosswind to you and the deer.  Deer also see well.  Try to place yourself where there is cover behind you -- a bush, a hill.  It is very easy to spot you if your silouette is visible against the sky above a hill.  If you can place yourself in shadow, this helps keep you hidden.  If you can conceal parts of your body behind brush or other obstructions, this helps conceal any fidgity movement of these hidden parts -- such as shifting legs, etc.  Try to move as little as possible, and when you must move, move slowly.  If possible, wear some covering over your face.  Human skin "flashes" as the head turns and light is reflected more or less in the direction of the deer.  If possible, obscure your eyes, as humans have eyes dispossed as predators (eyes directed forwards).  If a deer looks at you, avoid returning the deer's gaze.  When a deer is looking at you, don't move.  Wait until the deer's eyes are averted to move, for example to raise your rifle to your shoulder.  Avoid unnatural noises like velcro fasteners unfastening, metal zippers jingling, nylon brushing on bushes.

Others can provide other details.

Offline victorcharlie

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2005, 04:36:33 AM »
How much time are you spending in the woods before the season opens?

It's kind of like school work.......do your home work and you'll do well on the test!
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Offline rickyp

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2005, 05:51:31 AM »
A little more help.
do not put on your hunting boots until you are ready to go in the field. keep them in the back of your truck or in a good thick plastic bag.

Your boots will pick up oders when you walk, if you stop for gas you will get the smell on them and it is very hard to get it off the deer will smell your boots a mile away. when you are scoutting take a little bag with you. When You find some fresh deer pooh put it in the bag.  after you put on your boots put the pooh on the ground and step in it with both feet so the scent from it is all ove rthe bottom of your boots. this is a very natrual oder for the deer and they will not be scared of it, infact they may follow it to find the new deer in town.

use a very good scent free soap to shower and a good deoderant.
put the deoderant  on your feet. arm pits crotch. these places are known to put out more human scents and the deer will pick up on them.

do not use normal laundry soap to wash your hunting close. for normal washing I will just use arm & hammer bakeing powder if they are very dirty I will add an oz or sports wash. and If I will be hunting around a lot of pine trees I will put a cap full of pine sol cleaner during the final rince. this will leave a slight pince scent but not very strong.

whatch what you use to clean your firearms/ bow deer can smell the cleaners and oils.
do not eat  strong spices like garlic several days before hunting and during the season.

do not smoke , drink or eat strong smelling foods while in the woods. If you can smell it the deer will be able to as well.

when in a stand make sure you are in a big enough tree to cover you entire body. a big tree will be more commfy for your back and it will help hide your shape. make sure you are up in the tree tops so branches and leaves will be arouond you all this will break up your shape.

You do not need the best camo stuff on the market! make sure your out line is broken up, and do not  move much and try and stay out of direct sunlight.

This can go on for ever.

Offline alsatian

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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2005, 06:41:37 AM »
Tree stands can provide an advantage.  Often deer do not look up, so there is a reduced chance of being spotted by a deer.  Also, in a stand your odor does not carry so easily to a deer on the ground.  I suspect this benefit diminishes with distance from the deer.  If you use a tree stand LEARN HOW TO USE THE STAND SAFELY!!!!  No kidding.  People die in several different ways using deer stands.  They fall out of the tree stand and break their neck.  If theydon't break their necks, they can break other bones.  If they use a safety harness, which you are supposed to do if you use an elevated stand, they may use it improperly, fall, and have their own weight and the improperly worn safety harness may prevent their breathing and they can suffocate.  IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE A STAND, LEARN TO USE IT SAFELY!!!  By the way, when sitting very still, after having gotten up well before sun rise, in a tranquil, peaceful woodland setting . . . it is very easy to fall asleep.  If you fall asleep in a tree stand, you might fall out.  This is why you need a safety harness.  Also, you need to use the harness correctly, per manufacturer instructions, or they can be worse than falling.

I don't use tree stands and I harvest deer.  My hunting host doesn't want me to install stands because he fears they may be poacher magnets.  He is the boss, so I do as he says.  Notwithstanding this limitation, I see deer and kill deer.

You want to get to your ambush point -- tree stand or, as in my case, ground stand or ground blind -- at least 30 minutes before you think prime hunting time begins.  In my limited judgment, the best hunting time is the first two hours of light and the last two hours of light.  Where I hunt, shooting light is considered 30 minutes before sun rise.  Hence, I try to be in my spot an hour before sun rise.  Often I try to get there an hour before shooting light, 1.5 hours before sun rise.  In the afternoon, best time is 1.5 hours before sun down to 30 minutes after sun down.  Again, get in position at least 30 minutes early, and preferably earlier than that.  Be still.  Be watchful.  Stay awake (can't shoot real deer in your sleep, though you may bag many imaginary B&C bucks this way).  Wear clothes so you are comfortable.  If you are cold, you won't be able to remain still.  Some people have suggested taking a sleeping bag and pulling it up to your arm pits.  This sounds like a good idea, though I have never done it.  Some people wear light clothes in to their ambush site and then put on warmer clothes there, to avoid sweating up their heavy clothes just getting to their spots.

One thing to keep in mind, think of the big picture.  There are many angles to take on deer hunting, but you don't need all of them all the time to take deer.  People took deer before camoflage was available.  People took deer before there were scentfree detergents.  I got to my hunting ground opening morning late last year, I think 20 minutes after shooting light and shortly before sun rise (my niece was dragging tail).  I placed my son and my niece at the optimal spot and myself trudged to a spot close to hand -- so I could return to help with any gutting that might need to be done by these novices -- and had little faith in the prospects of my spot.  It turned out to be a good spot, and I bagged a doe that morning.  Even if you don't follow your optimal plan, you can still take deer.

Some people have good luck during the middle of the day.  I don't some people say you should stay in the hunting fields all day long: you can't bag deer if you aren't afield.  There is some logic to this.  Worse case, you are out in the woods breathing clean air relaxing and listening to the birds sing.  If you are hunting during the rut -- when bucks are actively mating with females -- the males may be out in the open in the middle of the day and have kicked the females up out of their beds.  This can make mid-day a productive hunting time.

Offline .308sniper

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2005, 09:43:19 AM »
iiibbb I hunt in the foothills.
have fun! get it done with a 308.

Offline longwalker

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just one more thing
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2005, 03:53:36 AM »
Try and relax. I know it sounds crazy, but I have seen more game watching the tweety birds and mice then intently glassing for deer.

If you are still hunting move ever so slowly. You should have squirrels and bird flying around you. If you don't you are moving to fast. I would suggest that the other creatures in the woods are your indication that you are doing the right things. It is not unusual to have birds perched right next to you in you stand. Or mice running across your boots. If you don't see deer there aren't any there.

Then you might have to go deeper in the woods, away from the riff- raff. That means getting up earlier and staying later. That might mean you have to pack your animal out rather than dragging.

Keep at it. Deer hunting is not easy. I can promise you it is not like TV where the host gets his or her deer in 30 minutes after driving up in a truck or 4 wheeler and a short walk and converstion to the stand.

Pack for the day so you can spend the time in the woods. Reviewing past years, I would say I see a deer in handgun range for every 12-15 hours spent hunting.

Of course all the advice regarding sent and wind and , and ,and ,are important. But your ability to be still and comfortable will be just as important. Have fun its supppose to be fun.

longwalker

Offline .308sniper

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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2005, 01:10:51 PM »
Sorry I ment coverscent
have fun! get it done with a 308.

Offline iiibbb

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2005, 06:53:54 AM »
I'm in the Mountains of VA. near Roanoke

My first season deerhunting was last season... so I'm not an expert.  However, I got 2 deer so I'll just tell you what I did.

Scouting
- I was hunting national forest.
- I hiked about a 1 1/2 mile to my spot
- I chose a saddle on a ridge where I'd get deer walking along the ridge or crossing the saddle to the other side of the mointain.
- I found a large tree to sit under with a good spot to sit and a place to put my legs.  
- I layed several 8ft long 3" diameter sticks against the tree on either side of where I sat and layed more sticks against that to make a crude blind.  I cleared all the leaves where I'd be sitting.
- Make sure you find a spot that you know well enough to return to in the dark.  GPS is handy, but you can use natural paths and landmarks.  The deer probably use natural paths and landmarks.

The morning of the hunt
- I went to the bathroom way before I got to my stand.
- I arrived at my stand about 30-45 minutes before sunrise.
- When I found my stand I sprayed some racoon urine on 4 saplings nearby and the back of the tree I was under.
- Then I changed clothes completely (having built up a sweat hiking there).  Warm enough that I wouldn't have to move around.  Put the sweaty clothes in a garbage bag and back in my pack.  My outerwear was just a pair of carharts and orange vest.  I wore polarfleece underneath.  Tried to stick to fleece and cotton.
- I tried to get all this settled 30 minutes before sunrise.
- I sat relatively still at that point.  Used my eyes more than turning my head, but I won't say I was motionless.

The shoot
- The first one I saw it before I heard it.  The second one I heard way before I saw so I had a lot more time to get ready for it.
- Once I heard/saw the deer, I picked the spot where I thought I could get a good shot, and slowly scrunched myself so that I could shoot off my knee.
- Calmed myself down; definite adrenaline dump and my heart was beating way fast.  Calmed down so I wouldn't screw up the shot.
- Waited for a good shot.  I didn't take the first shot I saw, I waited for a nice open shot.  Both were about 80 yrds.
- BANG!
- After I shot I waited about 10 minutes before I went to find it.  They both dropped within 20 yrds of where I shot them.
- Didn't want to go too soon because I've heard that if they aren't dead right away they may take off.  Give them a little time to die.  Both of mine looked like they collapsed so I probably could've gone right away.  A friend of mine said I should have waited 20 minutes.


All I can say based on my experience is there's nothing magic about it.  I think the #1 priority is get their early, pick a spot that deer must pass (natural funnel), sit down and don't move, and be aware of wind direction.  I hunted 5 days total... saw deer on 4 of them.... got deer 2 of them...  The closest a deer came to me was 10-15 yrds.  One saw me, one didn't.  

I could've shot the one that didn't but I'd already bagged one that day.  I was actually just sitting there reading at that point because I didn't know how to field dress it and my friend said that if I shot one not to come find him until 10am so he'd have a chance to get one himself.

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2005, 04:08:57 PM »
You won't kill a deer if there are no deer there!  You have to scout before the season opens to consistantly kill deer..........Look for tracks, deer droppings, scrapes and rubs...........Find the well used trails.........when you find a place that looks promising then set up early.....and see if any deer show up!  

I usually have a pretty good idea about what I'm going to kill well before the season opens........Hunt the deer(without a gun) before the season opens........and you'll be successful on opening day.........

The archery hunters and muzzleloader spend many weeks in the woods before the regular gun season opens........they know where the deer are and when they are moving because they are out there with them........
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Offline iisabigone

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help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2005, 07:26:51 AM »
sniper

I hunt in the foothills in Virginia(Henry, Pittsylvania, Franklin) and I dont feel I need any coverscent. I use the wind to my advantage. I try to set up in areas where my scent will not drift or blow into areas deer are in or going too. I also watch where I walk. I try not to walk where I feel a deer may approach from or over.  I also keep my boots clean.

Actually "In My Own Very Humble Opinion" the whole coverscent idea is just to get a few more dollars out of you pocket.

Im sure there are many very successful hunters sold on coverscents.

                                        iisabigone

Offline Savage .250

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Re: help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2005, 02:35:47 AM »
Quote from: .308sniper
What kind if any cover should I use for deer.  I have had alot of unsuccessful seasons and am willing to do any thing to help.



   Keep the wind in your face and your gun in your hand!  There`s more
   but that`s a good start.
" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."