Author Topic: Comparing RWS 34...and a Beeman R9...and opinions on a Gamo. (Read 2363 times)

Mac11700 · « **on:** June 09, 2005, 08:38:15 AM »

I got a chance to actually hold these rifles today...and would like a real comparison from all of you guys who have shot these 2 rifles...

The R9 is a used rifle...with scope mounts...price will be around $250 for it...and it's in 20cal...the store has 5 different style RWS 20 cal pellets...so selection isn't real bad...

The other is a new RWS 34...in 177 or 20 cal...both stocks are simalar color...plain finish...

They can order me a new R9 in for around $350...are they that much better overall than the RWS models?

Just a side note...I looked at one of those GAMO Stuzens...had the full lenght Manlicher stock on it...believe it or not...the wood on this rifle was quite nice.and finished pretty good..but I don't know if it would be worth even considering with all the negative reviews and what you all have said here about them...anyone know anything about these?

Sorry for all the newbe questions guys...so much to learn...so-little time...

Thanks A-Bunch...

Mac

VictorLouis · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2005, 01:52:54 PM »

Mac,

I read your other post, so I know you'd like to be able to hunt with the rifle. Many people tout the .20 as great in that role, though the pellet cost is far more than the .177 and still higher by most accounts that the .22. The fact that the store has more than a couple of selections in that caliber is a good thing.

Since neither is yet scoped, you're set with iron sights. The HW (aka, R-9) has the superior set in the regard. While they appear to be darn near exactly the same, you'll note the Diana 34(aka, RWS) has a "tapered" front post. While it work out well with an aperture rear, that adds extra expense. The front post on the R9 is superior in that regard, and there are other front inserts that you can try out for it should you desire to.

Scope mounts, particularly good ones, also add extra expense. The fact that the R9 has a set is also a 'plus'. I would suggest that you offer to buy a tin of the .20, and a tin of the .177, and ask to cock and shoot BOTH guns. Preferably a couple times apiece, as you hand them back and forth to the clerk. If that's possible, you'll be convinced one way or the other. The used R9 is probably the best deal, though I'm more of a fan of the Diana line. You'll find that the R9 might cock a bit easier, but it will have more of the buzz and twang upon firing that you've heard about vs. the 34. If it does NOT, then it may have had a lube job, or even a tune of some sort, which would make it an even better deal.

Lawdog · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2005, 02:20:58 PM »

Mac,

First for a hunting caliber you might take into account that a number of states that allow the use of air rifles for the taking of small game also mandate the minimum caliber you can use. In California it is .20 caliber minimum for the taking of certain small game(Turkeys for one). That said in my opinion go with at least the .20 caliber for hunting. Dont worry about being able to get pellets of any caliber. I get most of my pellets from Pyramyd Air where you buy three tins of pellets and they will give you the forth tin FREE. Send in your order and within a week(usually a few days) youll have the pellets in your hand.

Depending on the condition of the R 9 I would pick it over the RWS 34 because the R 9 will have the better trigger. Also it already has scope rings on it and that alone is a savings of $30 to $50 right there. Also take into account that air rifles dont reach their optimum accuracy until they get broke in, usually 500 or so shots. As far as the Gamo goes, STAY AWAY FROM THEM AS FAR AS YOU CAN. Gamo = JUNK. They are notorious for going thru seals, have way to much plastic in vital areas that breaks at the wrong time and they wont back their warrantee when you do have problems with one of their products. When it comes to products in the air gun category stay away from Gamo, Tasco scopes and B-Square rings. All are JUNK. Save your money and do yourself a favor. I have already been thru it with all three companies. Lawdog

dave · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2005, 03:37:13 PM »

Stick with the R9. The Diana is ok, but if you were to shoot the two side by side you'd notice the difference right off. As noted, the Rekord trigger is quite a bit better than the Diana trigger. One other thing not touched on yet- when the time comes, and it will come- that a seal or spring needs replacement, the R9 is much easier to fix than the Diana, and theres some real nice upgrades available for the R9, unlike the 34 where the choice is fairly limited.
As for the Gamo, how closely did you look at it? Those Stutzens have an under-lever cocking system that poorly designed and I think either the lever is too short for the springs power or has the wrong geometry in the linkages. It takes 2 men and a boy to cock one of those things. Avoid Gamos unless you like fustration and headaches.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2005, 09:44:15 PM »

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As for the Gamo, how closely did you look at it?

...Apperently not close enough...the stock is what caught my eye on it...I just love that Manlicher look... :-D

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I would suggest that you offer to buy a tin of the .20, and a tin of the .177, and ask to cock and shoot BOTH guns.

I'll ask...but they aren't set up at the store for try-outs...and I know they won't let me shoot a new one...wish they would...that would take a-lot of guess work out of it...

Mac

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2005, 12:18:24 PM »

Well...I'm back from my gun dealers...and I did get to shoot a few guns there...I took the advice given here and offered to buy a couple of tins of their Beeman pellets to try and they said ok...nothing really formal or the like...just went out in back of the store and shot at a sign at 10 - 20 yards away..my aiming spot was a 2' letter o...and this was offhand naturally..so here's what I found out so-far..

The Gamo is truly a crappy gun...I thought we had some terrible triggers on our Handi rifles...SHeeeeeeeeese.I don't know if anything could be done about it...but...it was the grittiest..harding pulling ...and longest trigger pull I've had to deal with...heck...my daisy Red-Rider BB gun is better than that P.O.C.....and while it didn't take 2 men and a boy to cock the durn thing...it was extremely difficult...ohh...by they way...they wanted $359.00 for it...what a joke...the only nice thing was the stock...I'll give them credit for that at least...but the rest of it wasn't worth even looking at.This was that Stutzen one I mentioned...oh yea...did I tell you how loud it was?...Try louder than my short barreled 22LR...it was incredibly loud...acccuracy with Beeman Match pellets wasn't to bad...but wasn't to great either...I hit the sign 3 out of 4 times...and the sign was 12"x12"

The 2nd one I shot was the used R9 I mentioned before...well...whoever traded it in...removed the sites and ...installed a muzzle brake?..and set it up with some 2pc scope rings...and I really can't tell what make of rings...so...I'll have to find that out...so...I knew I wasn't going to shoot it very good...at least that's what I thought...so I bought another tin of pellets..these were the Beeman's Silver Bears...(they just looked pretty cool

) and out back we went again...The rifle is one of the deluxe models...with the nice Walnut stock and cheek piece and checkering...it's even got a nice little recoil pad on it...and as a nice touch...it has a grip cap on the pistol grip...This gun is a .20 cal...and you all were right on the money...it is built exceptional well...no scratches on the stock..just a couple small dings...and the blueing is perfect...so...I cocked it..loaded it..aimed about 3" below my O thru the scope rings and fired..I hit about 1" to the left...the gun recoils...but nothing like that Gamo..it's much smoother...just like the trigger...smooth pull and about a 2lb release...very very nice...

Now...I now this isn't any real type of evaluation you guys normally do...just a very quick informal shooting session of 2 totally different guns..but I can see you get what you pay for with these as any other rifle you buy....I have them holding back the Beeman for me...and I let my lovely wife know about it... :eek: ...but...I think I'm leaning real hard on getting it...I did look at a new R-9 before I left...it's priced at $358.99...it has a plain straight beech stock on it...no cheek piece or that...and the blueing isn't as deep either...still...it's a nice gun...and the last one I looked at again...was a RWS 48...25 cal...it's pretty nice...but heavy...very heavy...

Just thought I would share that with ya.....

Mac

dave · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2005, 01:10:39 PM »

If that R9 is as you describe, its the R-9 Deluxe in Walnut. It may be that the gun came with the muzzle brake and rings, Beeman did offer a what was called a combo option- the gun came with no open sights, but had the brake, rings and scope installed at the Beeman shop.
If that guy wants $250 for it, get there quick, buy it and run. Thats a real good deal on a very nice gun. The R-9 Deluxe in Beech is listed used at over $300 in top condition (245 + 80 for deluxe option), add about $75-100 to that for walnut(If it is walnut- you don't see a lot of R-9s in factory walnut, unless it is a custom-stocked gun which is entirely possible). You won't find a better bargain on a R-9. Good choice on the Silverbears too. They are an excellent pellet and work well in most guns. I use them in most of mine with good results. In fact its the only pellet my Xocet will shoot well. My Hws also like the Silverbears, the HW50 most notably.

If you need a scope to use the gun, the Bushnell variable power scopes with adjustable objective that are sold at Walmart for $70-80 will work fine on the R-9. Of course, there are some real nice scope options for far more $$$, but you really don't need to cough up $300+ for a scope that works. The R-9 isn't really hard on scopes, and the Bushnell should work fine. If you want a single power scope, the Simmons 4x32 is fine, or the new model BSA 4x32. I have all three of these scopes, all mounted on medium to high power springers, all have survived so far.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2005, 05:43:23 PM »

Thanks dave...

Are you saying that any good scope will work...and not just one approved for air rifles...I know the R-9 doesn't kick real hard...but I always thought with the forweard and reward motion it would tear up regular scopes...

The rifle is as I descibed...it isn't beech..that's one thing for-sure...even the store worker agreed on that.It doesn't have a lot of figure in it..but it is totally different than what comes on the standard modle.

I guess I'm going to have to learn how to work on these...changing those $10.00 parts and all...looks like it's going to be a long summer.........but fun...

Mac

dave · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2005, 06:35:22 PM »

That scope thing is pretty much a myth in my opinion. The reason any gun tears up scopes is because it has a problem. Ring placement, ring design, loose screws, malfunctioning piston seals, leaking breech seals, all can lead to situations that may cause a scope to fail. If the gun is shooting smoothly and everythings working well, the scope should last a long time. There are scopes that are specifically made for airguns, with specially reinforced reticles etc, but its not absolutely neccessary.
The RWS 54 has a reputation of killing scopes, but I've had mine 3 years, so far it has not broken the scope. Its tuned and tuned well, and the firing cycle is much smoother. So, not so hard on the scope.
I think that that R-9 is probably a high-end model or custom gun, either with a Beeman shop tune or maybe a good aftermarket tune. If so, I wouldn't worry about the scope. Those scopes I mentioned do work fine on airguns. I had a Bushnell 4-12x40 on a Beeman S1 for a while, then on an R-10, A Diana 27, a BSF 55, and finally now its on a Rutten Winstar Mach 1 DE. All of these except for the Diana 27 are high power airguns. The S1 has a particularly nasty kick, and the BSF has a very strong spring with a hard recoil, both are said to be hard on scopes. The Bushnell is 4 years old now and has survived all these guns so far.
The Simmons is a 4x32 Wild Turkey Federation shotgun model. Its been on my Webley Xocet for quite some time now, a year or so and maybe 2000 shots later its still fine and I've only had to make minor adjustments.
The BSA is somewhere (?). I don't remember which gun its on, I've got several dozen in various places. Its about a year old now, its been on a couple guns and used quite a bit and it still works.
Any decent scope will work. There are scopes to avoid, like the $20 Daisy and Crosman stuff, and Tascos too. If the time comes when you want to spend a few $$$ on a decent higher end scope, the Leupold 3-9x33AO is about the best deal going. I got one for $265 from Natchez and its now on my R10. Its got to be the best small airgun scope out there.

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2005, 11:04:33 AM »

Mac,

When Dave told you to,

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If that guy wants $250 for it, get there quick, buy it and run.

that was excellent advice. As for a scope make darn sure the scope you get is air rifle approved and warranted as such. I have buster brand name scopes on springer rifles that would stand up to the recoil of a .375 H&H mafnum. My Beeman Kodiak busted a Leupold variable and when I sent it back to the factory I was promly informed that modle wasnt rated for air rifle use. They did fix it but not until they told me to brighten up. A good quality. low cost air rifle rated scope to look into is the new air rifle offerings from BSA. http://www.bsaoptics.com/productlist.asp?ID=11&Cat_Name=airrifle22.jpg&Cat_Code=AR&Cat_Type=RFAM A couple of years ago BSA completly redid their manufacturing process and their scopes today are clear to the edge. Dont change point of aim when changing power levels. I know of bunch of shooters that have them on their magnum springer rifles(were talking rifles that have a reputation for tearing up even high dollar scopes - RWS 48/52 and 350M, Beeman Kodiak, etc.) and no problems. I have their AR312x44 on a few of my air rifles. Keep them in mind. Lawdog

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2005, 03:28:47 PM »

Wow.. :eek: ...I don't know about those BSA scopes lawdog...I've looked thru quite a few of them...and ...well...I just wasn't impressed with the clarity of them...I'm sure yours are very good...otherwise you wouldn't recomend them...but .....I've been several places and everyone I've looked thru.. was bad...I'll be searching for a decent one real soon...I've decieded on getting the R-9D...it certainly is quite enough for me...and I think with a good quality scope I should have a great set-up...

There is one brand of air-rifle scope I would like to look thru...it's made buy Leapers I think...they call it the Bug Buster...it's a short compact solid 1pc tube...and it supposed to focus down to 9 feet...I haven't read anything bad about them...nor good...anmyone here heard of them or have first hand knowledge of them? Here's a link to a review of them...in case no-one has seen them...http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/leapers-scopes/

Mac

sherpa · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2005, 09:34:10 AM »

i have a bushnell banner on a webley sting ray and on a r9 and a trophy on a r11 for over a year with no problems all are .177.

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2005, 09:42:58 AM »

Mac,

Like you I havent heard anything either good or bad about Leaper scopes. My main concern is being made in Japan just how well will the company stand behind their warrantee?(this is one of the problems with Tasco and the lower cost Bushnell scopes) Will their scopes focus down to less than the 35 yards their parallax is set for on that compact model that you mentioned(if it doesnt air gunners wont be happy)? The only Leapers scope I find interesting is the Leapers Accushot 4-16x56 30mm Tube Side Wheel Adjustable Turret. If it will focus down to 10 yards or less(BSA and Burris scopes both focus down to 7 yards - Leupold down to 10 yards) then it might be a decent scope. Another air rifle approved scope I have heard a lot of good things about is Swift scopes. I dont own any but that may change with my next air rifle purchase. When did you last look thru a BSA scope? Lawdog

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2005, 07:02:28 PM »

Lawdog:

http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/leapers-scopes/

Here a picture on how good it will focus..

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And, this is what it looks like. This photo was taken at approximately 9', handholding both the scope and camera. The green reticle light was set to maximum intensity for this daylight picture.

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Here is a picture that no other scope in the world can give. The side of the scope box is nine feet away! The "Bug Buster" scope really can focus so close that insect hunting is possible.

Here's a link to another review I found on them...seems this guy really likes them too...

http://www.geocities.com/echochap/optics1.html

Heck for as little money as they cost...might as well try one...like I told my good friend Quickdtoo in a PM...nothing ventured...nothing gained...and if I had listened to most of my hunting buddies...I would never gotten back into Handi rifles...and would have missed out on meeting all of you guys on this forum

I'm ordering one in the morning...so I guess I can do some sort of review on them???

Mac

Lawdog · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2005, 09:21:14 AM »

Mac,

I saw the pictures on Pyramyd Air but it still doesn't show what distance they will focus down to. Like I said 35 yards is OK for hunting sometimes but for target work you want the scope to focus down to 10 yards or less. And Leapers being made in Japan still worries me. I will have to be able to pick one up and look thru it before I spend my money on one. Lawdog

victorcharlie · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2005, 10:48:28 AM »

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And Leapers being made in Japan still worries me.

All political and social issues a side, Why would being made in Japan worry you? Japanese optics are know for being some of the best in the world.......Chinese made is a different thing all together, this would worry me........as I lived and worked in China for 18 months.....and know first hand the lack of quality control and the work ethic involved............Where are the BSA's made?

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:47:21 AM »

Victor,

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All political and social issues a side, Why would being made in Japan worry you? Japanese optics are know for being some of the best in the world

Because I have had really bad experiences with Japanese products from autos on down. I live by an old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." so if I get burned once I dont give them a second chance. I know that some say that Japanese optics are some of the best in the world but they are also some of the worst too. Lawdog

TC Shooter · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2005, 06:52:24 AM »

I have had good luck with the Japanese optics that I have bought. The Weaver V16 I own is among the best of all my scopes regardless of price. In fact the only scopes I ever had to send back were a Leupold and a Redfield - both of which were made in the U.S.

Lawdog · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2005, 08:48:53 AM »

Quote from: TC Shooter

I have had good luck with the Japanese optics that I have bought. The Weaver V16 I own is among the best of all my scopes regardless of price. In fact the only scopes I ever had to send back were a Leupold and a Redfield - both of which were made in the U.S.

.I quit using Weaver scopes years ago when they virtually quit honoring their warrantee on their products. Maybe things have changed but not enough for me to try them again. Bushnell scopes are another sore spot. I have a brand new 6-18x 40mm Trophy(the one Bushnell recommends for magnum power springer air rifles) that the power adjustment ring cant hardly be turned without an undue amount of force. Called Bushnell on this and they said "it would loosen up with use"(they also said they wouldnt replace it as there was nothing wrong with the scope). That was going on two years ago and every time I go into my reloading shed I take it down and grab the scope in my left hand cranking the power adjustment ring with my right. It still is unusable. There is also another brand new Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15 x 40mm in my shed that I bought over two years ago to mount on my Ruger No.1 .25-06 and it has the same problem. I got the same answer from Bushnell on this one too. Tasco gives new meaning to POS. They went bankrupt due to customer complaints causing their sales to plummet to a point where they couldnt stay in business. Bushnell bought them out of bankruptcy and things havent improved yet. Japanese optics, no thank you. Went that route with these companies9and others) and not ever again. Like I said, Fool my once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Lawdog
:toast:

TC Shooter · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2005, 07:29:20 PM »

The literature with my Weaver scope states that the scope is warranted for as long as it is owned by the original owner. Don't know if this is false or not - but it is in print. Hopefully I will never have to find out. Know of a benchrest shooter who used Weaver scopes on his 6mm PPC as well as his wife's. He was pretty impressed with the scopes at the time and the benchrest crowd are pretty hard to please.

The first time out with the Weaver V16 mounted on my custom 10/22 I shot my best group ever at the 50 yard line. I'll continue to use it. It is a far nicer scope than anything else I have with exception of my Leupold Vari-XIII 6.5X-20X.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread. Given the choice of the above mention rifles I would choose the R9. I have an R7 and it has given me a lot of shooting pleasure. The R9 was the other rifle that I was considering at the time and I went with the R7 simply because my use was mainly indoor target at 50 ft.

Lawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2005, 08:54:04 AM »

TC Shooter,

I started out using nothing but Weaver scopes. Put them on ever rifle that got a scope. Heck if they were good enough for Jack OConnor, good enough for me.

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The literature with my Weaver scope states that the scope is warranted for as long as it is owned by the original owner.

That is the same warrantee they have had all along. A number of years ago I sent them a new K 10 scope that I ordered from Sears(after being instructed by Sears to contact Weaver) that the vertical adjustment wouldnt move. I had my receipt from UPS and when I didnt hear from Weaver after two weeks I called them. Their customer service representative apologized and said they would get right on it. Three weeks later and I hadnt heard from them so back on the phone again. Again another apology and another promise. After another three weeks I finally got a new scope in the mail. I am not the only person that had problems with Weaver. Like I said they may have changed their ways but they have already burnt their bridge with me. Lawdog

TC Shooter · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2005, 06:24:22 AM »

Yeah Lawdog , I can understand your disappointment. That kind of experience would tend to ruin one's confidence in a product.