Author Topic: Jackson Aquited I guess it pays to be a celeb  (Read 1395 times)

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Offline jh45gun

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Jackson Aquited I guess it pays to be a celeb
« on: June 13, 2005, 11:50:10 AM »
First OJ Then Blake Now Jackson I guess money does buy you everything!   :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2005, 12:05:30 PM »
They all had their day in court.

A jury of their peers found them all "not guilty" based on the evidence as it was presented to them in a court of law.

Why begrudge a man his freedom based on an opinion that may have been formed without the benefit of complete information?

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2005, 01:14:49 PM »
Because in all three cases High powdered Expeninsive Lawyers got them off thats why. If any of these cases would have also been anywhere than the land of fruits and nuts the jury may have reacted differently. Or if they had not been celebs.
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Offline ms

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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2005, 02:04:21 PM »
The devil won! :twisted:

Offline Rummer

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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2005, 03:01:37 PM »
Michael Jackson is definitely a sicko and a scumbag; and in my OPINION he is propbably guilty,but the without knowing,
1.What the Jury heard
2.What burden of proof the prosecution had to meet
3.What evidence was presented
None of us can say what conclusion we would have come to in the jury room.

Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2005, 03:06:24 PM »
Quote from: jh45gun
Because in all three cases High powdered Expeninsive Lawyers got them off thats why. If any of these cases would have also been anywhere than the land of fruits and nuts the jury may have reacted differently. Or if they had not been celebs.


Again, why begrudge a man his means when so much is at stake?

While the allegations against Jackson were of reprehensible deeds, being accused of something does not make a person guilty.

The state was unable to prove their case in open court.  If they had had sufficient evidence to prove his guilty it would have been done.

If you were on trial for your life or for your fortune, wouldn't you want the best legal representation that you could "buy"?

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Shorty

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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2005, 03:10:49 PM »
The sickness is, why do millions of people and a commensurate number of "jouralists" even give a damn!
It's finally over.  'Till the NEXT trial-of-the-century arrives!  :roll:

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2005, 04:08:33 PM »
Quote from: FWiedner
Quote from: jh45gun
Because in all three cases High powdered Expeninsive Lawyers got them off thats why. If any of these cases would have also been anywhere than the land of fruits and nuts the jury may have reacted differently. Or if they had not been celebs.


Again, why begrudge a man his means when so much is at stake?

While the allegations against Jackson were of reprehensible deeds, being accused of something does not make a person guilty.

The state was unable to prove their case in open court.  If they had had sufficient evidence to prove his guilty it would have been done.

If you were on trial for your life or for your fortune, wouldn't you want the best legal representation that you could "buy"?

 :?


Thats exactly my point Fwed if I was on trial I could not afford the best hell I would be lucky if I could get mediocre. If your a celeb you can get the best and the state is stuck with what ever clown got elected DA which is showing to be pretty damn lopsided in these high profile cases. OJ,Blake, Jackson walks all celebs. Peterson gets nailed and he is not a celeb. There was some doubt in his case too Yea I felt he was guilty so I am not upset with the verdict in his case but I say if he was a celeb the story may have been different. Jim
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2005, 01:21:12 AM »
I'm sure the guy is probably guilty, but it doesnt sound like the proof was there. What the jury didnt believe was the mother and the two boys. Cant say that I blame them. They sound like they are nothing but liers and cheats, why should anyone believe them?

I think the real crime lays with the mother. I believe she put her kids in that situation for only one reason...MONEY. If anyone should go to jail it is her. The guy is "wierd" and has a history of being "weird" there is no way I would let my kids be anywhere around him. She used her kids as a tool, put them in harms way to try and make a few million dollars, that is the real crime in all of this.

The guy is guilty of being weird, but did ya ever thing that maby he is not guilty of what he was accused of by a bunch of liers and cheats, looking for a fast million?

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2005, 08:15:53 AM »
He admits sleeping with kids and they found porn in his place it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out this guy is a pedophile. Any common non celeb guy that was not some one who could not hire the lawyers  or bodygards would be hung from the nearest tree by now by some irate parent.  :x
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2005, 02:38:41 PM »
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Because in all three cases High powdered expeninsive Lawyers got them off thats why

Wrong. High power, expensive prosecutors didn't make a case before trying it. If you were in Jackson's shoes, would you ask for a retrial? Seem's we're always mad at the guy we think got away with something but never the public servants that serve it up to them. [/quote]
:wink: Even a blind squrrel find's an acorn sometime's![/quote]

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2005, 03:32:27 PM »
Quote from: Don Fischer
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Because in all three cases High powdered expeninsive Lawyers got them off thats why

Wrong. High power, expensive prosecutors didn't make a case before trying it. If you were in Jackson's shoes, would you ask for a retrial? Seem's we're always mad at the guy we think got away with something but never the public servants that serve it up to them.
[/quote]

Your talking a Misnomer here Don as Most prosecutors are average attornies going into politics. Some on the local scene are pretty poor excuses for lawyers. How many folks really know anything about the local folks they put into office?  Yea the politics may make them some what powerful but they do not have the expertise i think that these expensive Defense lawyers do. It pretty much looks to me that if the lawyers are about par it could go either way but if you can afford these types of defense lawyers you have a pretty good chance to walk as they can put holes in any of the prosecuting Attorny's  case.
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2005, 04:01:23 PM »
How does this differ from any other thing dealing with the law? There are the haves and the have nots. Nothing new with this. Take for an example some guy is stealing your car and you shoot him, thinking he was reaching for a gun and there is no gun. Guess what happens to you? You get your six hung out to dry. Now a cop does the same thing. Only difference is it is ok for the cop to do it. Tell me there isnt a double standard.

 Anybody who can afford a good lawyer and doesnt do it is a fool. Why do you think you pay more than your fair share of taxes, and some rich fat cat gets away with avoiding taxes on millions of dollars? They can afford good tax lawyers.

 This jury didnt seem to be a bunch of idiots from what I saw. I dont think they could believe the boys and their mom. They sat through 5 months of this case day in and day out, I think they probably know a little more than what we know. Are you realling willing to send a guy up for 25+ years, because you think he might be guilty?

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2005, 10:40:09 AM »
Emotionally I want to side with Jim. Sure seems like he did it, like OJ & Barretta. Thing is they went to court & won. Maybe if they were less affluent it would be different but thats just not the way it was.  :?
I thought OJ was guilty & its sure easy to believe Jacko's a whacko but not knowing all the facts I cant say I know either was really guilty.

I think tho that states should think about retaining better lawyers in cases like this. I dont know the legal ramifications but I think it would level the playing field a bit.

Now if it were MY kid & I thought Mr Jackson had improper relations with him I might just be happy that they aquitted him & set him loose in the world. The world can be a mighty dangerous place  :twisted:  specially for child molesters.
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Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2005, 12:24:58 PM »
jh45gun, your probally right. But the fact remains it's the states responsibility to prove guilt,, PROVE guilt! The state didn't do it in the O.J. trial, they knew they couldn't so tried him in the court of public opinion. They won there but lost in the court that count's. Not to worry, we'll just try him again for the same crime by changing the charge we call it. You put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig, that was double jeporidy! I didn't hear anyone screaming about O.J.'s right's, how come? Oh yea, we're gonna get the rick collard guy that hit his wife, any port in a storm. Maybe O.J. did it and maybe he didn't. The question that needs answered is this. Is it alright with anyone that everything that happened to O.J. after the discovery of the bodies, happens to you in a like situtation? I doubt that but then we know O.J. did it, right? Knew it right from the start!

And how about Scott Peterson? The prosecution admitted their case was totally, TOTALLY, circumstantial. Not a problem, whatever the state van sell to a jury is ok, proof be damned.

We should quit blaming the guys we think got away with something and start telling out cops and prosecutors that they can no longer railroad anyone, suddenly they have to prove their accusations. The next guy that gets railroaded down there just may be you. Who you gonna scream to?

Sometimes protecting YOUR rights means letting a bad guy go. The state of Cal. likes to try the accused in the news first for some reason. They did it to O.J., Scott Peterson and Michael Jackson. I don't know if any of them are guilty but look at what happened to each and whos the only guy convicted? A guy like most of us, not rich. And convicted totally on circumstantial evidence. That what you want???
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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2005, 04:47:21 PM »
No and thats my whole point Peterson got nailed for a crime that was no different than the other 3 high profile cases he got nailed a common guy the celebs did not what I have been trying to say all along. Jim
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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2005, 05:00:06 PM »
Jim I agree with you, but it is just not the celebs. It is anyone with money. From small towns up to the big time. Got enough money and a crooked enough lawyer you can get away with murder!! or molestation. But the state still has to prove a case, that a jury will buy.

Offline Don Fischer

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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2005, 05:31:27 PM »
big medicne says:
Quote
But the state still has to prove a case, that a jury will buy.


And thats part of the point! I don't like Jackson anymore than you guys but at the same time, I don't want to be hung on a made up case either. If ya don't want that to happen to you, you can't except it when it happens to some scumbag like Jackson.

The state took a bad case after Jackson and a known loser after O.J., they got shot down. The ones to be angry with are the cops and prosecutors that didn't do their jobs right. How in the hell can the prosecution call witnesses that testify for the accused? How does that happen??? And yet they got away with a totally circumstantial case with Scott Peterson. That should never happen. In O.J.'s trial, 80% of the public had him convicted before jury selection. Why? The state tried him in the news from the get go. You want that stuff to happen to you? Be angry with the state for not doing their job!!!!!!!!

Once you get over being hurt, figure it out. The system failed on the part of the people. O.J. and Jackson merely defended themselves.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2005, 05:45:24 PM »
Without the Patriot Act the Lodi "Four" would not have been jailed


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Offline Dubious Dan

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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2005, 05:52:42 PM »
While it's true that if you're a celeb or rich the odds of getting away with something are better, but who do you blame, the lawyer, the prosecutor, the celeb or the jury. I find it hard to blame the lawyer who is doing what he's trained to do to the best of his ability. That's his job. Those that are better at the job get paid more for their services. Do I like it when they get a guility person off...No I don't. But, I tend to put the blame on the prosecutor for not doing their job or the jury for not  (in many cases) understanding the evidence.

I would like to point out that Scott Peterson, not a celeb, still had a high dollar lawyer and was found guilty despite having one.

Was OJ guilty, yep but the jury didn't think so.

Was Scott Peterson guility, probably and the jury thought so.

M Jackson, the odds are that he is, but they couldn't convince the jury.

Offline jeager106

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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2005, 03:32:07 AM »
O.K. I knew I shouldn't have stopped in here!
Look. I was a cop for 22 years. Of that I was an investigator for 10 and of that 10 I served 3 years as Chief of Criminal Investigations.
Prosecutors in my neighborhood were often, most ALWAYS, fledgling newbies that could not afford to start a private practice, or get into a law firm because they 1) were not good enough to do well in school, or 2) weren't connected somehow to get a little "pull".
So they try to get jobs as public defenders or prosecutors.
It pays reasonably well, are public servants so they get a medicore retirement, and if they are any good at all (most are not) they can run for a local judgeship and make 1) great money, 2) have a great retirement, 3) advance in politics, 4) and almost universally make great bucks under the table.
 :twisted:
People with $$$$$$$$$$$$ that commit serious crimes often get away with it completely. People that are connected, either thru mob ties, political ties, or family ties, often get away with anything up to and including rape and murder.
22 years is a pretty good barometer to make judgements by.
Iv'e seen it.
There were a few crooked coppers but it's much more "cost effective" to own a judge or prosecutor.
I convicted a guy of aggrevate arson. Had eye witnesses, motive, pay off (insurance on a failing business), fingerprints, you name it I had it.
He nearly confessed till his Daddy ( a wealthy banker) showed up with a hi priced lawyer.
The jury still found the guy GUILTY! Yahooooooo.
NOT!
The judge made a "directed verdict". That means the judge can over ride a jury's decision and overturn a jury of 12.
Believe that sh$t?
The judge made a statement saying that the jury was in error, he overturned the conviction, set the guy free and retired.
He was going to retire anyway, this was his last case. He took some public flak but so what?
The cost?
50 grand to the judge.
Guess waht? In Ohio A directed verdict by a judge cannot ever, ever be over ruled and it's a rare case where this ever happens.
I made such a fuss that I got "promoted" to lieutenant in charge of S.W.A.T. and drug raids.
Hmmmmmm? Maybe they'd get lucky and I'd get killed, what?
I got lucky and was only disabled and my career ended.
I moved from the area as I was not worth crap and a constant pain to these crooks (officials) because I knew too much.
I lead a very low profile quiet existance today.
Anyone who thinks there is justice in our legal system is living on a different planet with your head up your (censored). :-D
 :roll:
I could write a book on the corruption I've seen, not so much by coppers, though there was some of that, but by the Chief, judges, and prosecutors.
And it ain't just on the local level either.

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2005, 08:12:15 AM »
Thanks for the great post from some one who knows first hand what goes on. Jim
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Offline Nightrain52

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« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2005, 06:49:52 AM »
Do you think the justice system operates fairly today-NOT-if so why does a man convicted of using crack get 5 years and a man convicted of using cocaine gets a slap on the wrist and a year of probation. As has been stated before it boils down to the difference between the haves and the have nots. :shock:
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Offline gino

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« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2005, 04:36:17 PM »
A friend of mine served on a jury years ago. He told me (no names mentioned or details of the case) that everyone on the jury thought the defendant was guilty but they voted to acquit because the state didn't PROVE their case. FWIW
gino

Offline MGMorden

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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2005, 10:49:26 AM »
Quote from: jh45gun
He admits sleeping with kids and they found porn in his place it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out this guy is a pedophile. Any common non celeb guy that was not some one who could not hire the lawyers  or bodygards would be hung from the nearest tree by now by some irate parent.  :x


Sleeping with kids (in the most literal interpretation, which he maintained that all they did was sleep) is not a crime, nor is owning porn.  If it had been child porn then it would have been a completely different matter, but you can't take 2 legal acts and condemn him based on it.

In this particular case, I'm not sure whether or not he was guilty; I do know that Jackson does act very strange in my view, but again, that's not illegal.  Based on what I saw, even though again Jackson seems questionable, the mother here seemed like she was simply out to get money.

Basically, it boils down to the simple statute: a man is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of law.  Not enough evidence was presented to confirm his guilt.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2005, 04:38:58 PM »
I remember one of the other cases that mommy and daddy dropped charges for $ 25,000,000. The boy had already testified about certain birthmarks on mjs uhhhh, errrrr, well, I mean, his lower extremities. A judge, in private chambers with both attys present, ordered him to drop his drawers, the witnesses all verified the boys claim.
He is one sick puppy. He stated on tv that he always had trouble eating, and that sometimes his friend Liz Taylor would have to spoon feed him. I agree that the state did not prove anything, but if he didn't do anything this time, I'm sure he has before. Big Bubba will get him someday. POWDERMAN.  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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