Author Topic: Stuck bullet (Read 1482 times)

handirifle · « **on:** June 11, 2005, 09:29:40 AM »

Hi all, looking to learn from those of you that are experienced. This is one of those things I always think could never happen to me. Ha!

New to this BP thing, well not totally, but pretty new. I have an old rifle I inherited from my dad. I knew he had some kind of gunk in the barrel to store it and to loosen a (then) rusted nipple. I thought I got it all cleaned out, BUT when I went to the range yesterday, I loaded it with about 80gr (50 Cal percussion) and a round ball and patch. I shoved it all the way down and kept bouncing the ram rod till it had a nice rebounding bounce of it's own. That's the way I was shown by some locals.

Anyway, after about 10 number 11 caps it would not fire. I'm more than reasonably certain the powder has never gotten wet in storage. It's been a wet year but none of my smokeless has shown any signs of moisture. The powder flowed nice and smooth, like when I loaded for BPCR (same powder Pyrodex RS).

I had to take the rifle home (no tool at the range), and took it apart. Tried to use compressed air from compressor at about 110psi.

Obviously not enough. It moves it bout 3" up the barrel and that's it. The ramrod has threads in the cupped end and I assume this is for a bullet pulling screw? How effective is this?

Could I re-seat the bullet, remove the nipple, pour powder in there and make it shoot out?

Suggestions?

roundball · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2005, 10:55:10 AM »

Quote from: handirifle

Could I re-seat the bullet, remove the nipple, pour powder in there and make it shoot out? Suggestions?

I would try that but only safely while at the range.

At home, I would use a ball puller attachment on a ramrod with a T-handle on the other end of the ramrod.

I pull my loads many times during hunting seasons after a day's hunt...

handirifle · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2005, 12:12:28 PM »

Quote

I would try that but only safely while at the range.

I kinda figured that went without saying. My point was would that work?

My ramrod is wood. The one with the t handle is made of something else?

Ramrod · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2005, 03:38:00 PM »

Removing the nipple and dribbling a little powder in usually works. You probably pushed some crud into the fire channel while loading or wiping the bore. Next time bring the nipple wrench to the range. :grin:

rickyp · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2005, 04:27:09 PM »

you can get but should already have a bullet puller on hand.
the wooden ram rod should work but you should get a range ram rod they are not that much. use the bullet puller and get a good in the bullet go to a vice and lock the ram rod in it and start yanking on the rifle you Will need a few quick yanks to get the ball to start moving but once it does it will come out easy.

handirifle · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2005, 05:46:08 PM »

I have a nipple wrench, not with me at the time of course, but the correct size allen wrench would have been nice too. I had my centerfires there with me and a small tool kit but not everything I needed.

Live and learn. I noticed when I tried to blow the bullet out with air, some of the powder came back out from the buildup of pressure.

Next time out, I'll do the powder in the nipple thing.

What is a good source for the puller and range rod?

jgalar · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2005, 02:10:30 AM »

You can get a range rod and puller from Cabelas, Bass Pro, Midway etc. Your local gun shop may even have them.

If you are going to pull the ball I would suggest removing the nipple and placing the barrel in water to kill off the powder charge first.

If you are going to try shooting it out I would leave the bullet where it is after using the air compressor and try to work in 10 grains or so of fine powder through the nipple, then seat the bullet and try shooting it out.

It sounds like the gun hasn't been shot in awhile so there may be a patch that was at the bottom before you loaded the powder or something could have crawled in there and died?

I haven't had to use a puller on a contaminated charge yet. I have been able to work in some powder, reseat and shoot the ball out. It has, on occasion, taken more than a few attempts.

Before I take a muzzleloader out shooting I run a few patches saturated in alcohol down the bore and pour some down the bore to remove any moisture and oil, than blow it out with the air compressor. Since you have a compressor it might be a good practice for you also. It makes sure your ignition path is clear and contamination free before loading.

handirifle · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2005, 10:47:49 AM »

jgalar

All good advice and that is what I'll do. Thanks.

X-Participant · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2005, 05:30:31 PM »

Censored.

crow_feather · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2005, 06:19:34 PM »

As long as we are on the subject, anything you can get stuck down a bore, can probably be shot out of the bore. However, the new fangled air pressure thingy does a pretty good job. The important part of the operation is to make sure the object is down on the powder charge before you let it go. In order to not loose my part, I will shoot it into a bucket of dirt or sand. If you do stick a jag, be sure to unscrew the ramrod before you try to shoot it out.

C F

Slamfire · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2005, 06:46:03 PM »

For a range rod I use one of the universal shotgun rods like you can find at Wally World. Just be sure and get the one with the threadee T handle, I pulled one of the press fitted ones off. A ball worm is just a screw thread that you screw into the soft lead projectile. When you do pull, hook the rod up to something and pull on the rifle, that way you can't shoot yourself with the ramrod. Even better pull the nipple, and set the barrel in a bucket of water until all the powder is out of the rifle.

Birddog6 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2005, 02:33:41 AM »

Personally, I would refrain from swabbing the barrel with alcohol while at home & then going to the range, as while you are on the way to the range the barrel is flash rusting... (If you think not try testing a piece of mild steel & rub with alcohol & put it under a microscope & watch it)

If you just used gun oil or a bore grease in the bore, just swab it good & dry til ithe patches come out clean. (This leaves a extremely thin layer of preservative on the metal & it will not flash rust) If you want to use alcohol, do so at the range & then load & start shooting as you wiped out all the rust inhibitors with the alcohol & left the metal exposed.
Anytime you use alcohol in a bore you need to start shooting or lube the barrel, one of the other........ (IMHO)

Anyone that cleans a rifle & then wipes with alcohol to disperse the moisture will tell you it is Most important to apply a bore preservative right after doing the alcohol swab. :wink:

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2005, 09:31:40 PM »

Been away from the post for a while. Yes, I am an experienced shooter (40+years now) and been reloading smokeless more than 30. Have done some BPCR but limited. read some good books on BP and am pretty familiar with the safety issues.

How much pressure do the Co2 blowers have, just in case the powder in the nipple area doesn't cut it? Although I do think it will fix the issue.

Might get out tomorrow AM to do this, will see.

Gun Runner · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2005, 06:14:54 AM »

Years ago bought one of the CO2 things for getting a stuck ball out. Gave it away to a gal that was raising 2 boys on her own, as they had gotten a ball stuck in a 50 cal. Got another one latter as the guy I fish and shoot with seemed to forget a couple times to powder before the ball. (this thing comes with a in-line adaptor also). Lost my jag someplace and got to thinking about another one. Had several old shotgun cleaning rods and thought why not make one. Found a good wood screw and fitted it into the end of the rod. Used J B weld to secure it. The rod has the threaded head , so just put some J B on the thread and in the handle. This is a 3 piece rod and fits into my range box. Teaching a couple younger ones to shoot B/P and have a feeling making them use the ball puller will help remember to powder first. I keep the CO2 thing handy with a box of 5 CO2 handy just in case.

Gun Runner

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2005, 04:40:49 PM »

gun runner
What did you use to center the rod in the bore to keep it from screwing in between the ball and barrel?

So I assume the C02 works pretty good?

Gun Runner · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2005, 09:08:56 PM »

Dint use anything to keep it centered. Basicly eyeball and feel. But now that you mention it might look into a couple of washers bbl. dia. and drill them to fit the rod and J B weld them in. The CO2 thing works fairly well, less you got a real tight patch ball then you run into problems, and have to resort to either the jag or pulling the nipple and pouring enought powder in to blow it out.

Gun Runner

Turtle · « **Reply #16 on:** June 15, 2005, 05:37:08 AM »

Along the line with handirifle's question, I have had problems with getting the worm to hold the ball. I screw it in as far as I can get it to go, then when I start to pull, the worm pulls out of the ball.

I have ran into this twice with trying to unload the gun at camp....not with the ball being stuck. Both times I finally just ended up shooting it but would have preferred to pull the ball.

I was wondering too if maybe the worm was off center and not getting centered in the ball even though the worm looked centered on the ram rod. Any ideas??

-Turtle-

wiley · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2005, 05:49:33 AM »

http://www.traditionsmuzzle.com/eShop/10Browse.asp?Category=Accessories%3ARamrod+Accessories

$2.00 retail

handirifle · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2005, 09:06:44 AM »

Whaoooo!
I got that sucker out :grin:
I took it out to the hills and poured some powder into the nipple area, screwed the nipple back in, and put on a cap. Then I reseated the bullet. I then held it as far away from my face as possible (can you say chicken?) and pulled the trigger. Pop, Bang, zip. Out it went, right through a plywood sheet it was pointed at. Nice 1/2" hole I could see 20yds away.

I thought, gee all that fuss fot that?

Then I proceeded to use the ram rod as a jag sort of, and pushed some cloth down the muzzle thinking to clean it out a bit and shoot some more. About 1" into this process, I realized one of two things was likely to happen here. One, the cloth would come off this makeshift jag, or two, since it is going down tight, it might get stuck. So I stopped and tried to pull it back.

And the winner is?

Any votes on number two?

? :shock: When I pulled the ramrod back out, a funny thing (NOT) happened. There was no tip on the ramrod, there was also no pulling it out with the extra cloth.

Luckily for me, this time, it was just a trip home, put the cloth in the vice and pull. Yahoo!!!

I think by the time I get to hunt with this thing, I'll have made MOST of the stupid mistakes I can make. And since I'll be on a hunting trip with it, that will mean I'm still alive.

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2005, 10:08:31 AM »

I think if this was my rifle I would first put the ramrod all the way down and make sure at least that the ramrod has clearance without any patch or anything else on it. If you have a clear path to the bottom I would get one of the Traditions bore light that you drop into the bore and look at what you have in the way of a bore. I would then decide how to deal with what the condition of the bore is before I tried shooting any more. Once the bore is clean and all the fouling,rust, birds nests etc. are removed and you are satisfied that there is clean rifling then you can start trying to shoot it. If you have a bore with some kind of restriction like a section that is rusty or something like that it could be somewhat dangerous to try shooting it until it is cleaned up as the restriction will make pressure differences that you do not want. If you do not feel confident that you have the necessary ability to do this you should find someone that does to help you evaluate the bore.

Ramrod · « **Reply #20 on:** June 15, 2005, 12:49:17 PM »

Quote from: handirifle

I think by the time I get to hunt with this thing, I'll have made MOST of the stupid mistakes I can make. And since I'll be on a hunting trip with it, that will mean I'm still alive.

Mistakes are how we all learn. But you are not out of the woods yet.
I have found that many new mistakes can be made while out hunting.

handirifle · « **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2005, 04:23:11 PM »

Kieth,
I don't think anything is wrong with the bore, its just that I quickly realized the cloth was too thick and was getting tight way too quick.

Besides it wasn't with a regular jag fitting so not much allowance was made for the cloth.

I do have some necessary accessories to buy before any serious attempt to shoot though. Those guys had to carry a lot of crap with them.

rich e · « **Reply #22 on:** June 16, 2005, 07:02:33 AM »

Handirifle, next time you go to the range to shoot , before loading , wipe the bore out with a clean patch to get any oil that may have built up in the breach area, then pop a couple of caps off to make sure your fire channel is open, NOW your ready to load with POWDER, PATCH, and BALL. When I wipe my bore out after a couple of shots to keep the crud build up down, I use a damp patch with TC #13 Bore cleaner, if you should get a jag & patch stuck in the barrel pour some bore cleaner down the barrel and let it stand for few minutes, you should be able to pull it back out then. Hope these tips help ya, beleive me, we all have had problems at one time or another, just be careful.

handirifle · « **Reply #23 on:** June 16, 2005, 10:04:31 AM »

Tons of good support and advice here. Thanks to all.

Gun Runner · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2005, 10:59:05 AM »

handirifle, found this little item while looking in a black powder forum. Might just be what a lot of B/P shooters are looking for:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/DSCN1180.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/DSCN1181.jpg

From the looks of it, it looks like it should work well, might try one in the near furture but was thinking about a modification or 2. Figgure if I make one I'll never need it but somebody else might. :roll:

Gun Runner

handirifle · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2005, 08:15:06 PM »

I like the dril bit idea of pre-drilling the bullet to allow a better purchase without expanding the ball in the barrel.

Slamfire · « **Reply #26 on:** June 22, 2005, 06:11:57 PM »

It is a neat idea, but how'd they put the 10-32 threads on that drill bit. I'd think it'd be too hard for a die. :eek:

Gun Runner · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2005, 03:34:45 AM »

Slamfire, you have a very good point about threading a drill bit. I have a box of cheap (soft metal) made in china bits I picked up from harbor fright sales. Every time I try to drill something with any hardness I wind up with a dull bit, these just may be soft enought to thread. Ifin this dont work still got a couple of old shotgun rod ends I can J B weld a drill bit into. Might score it in a couple places to help keep it from pulling out.
I dont hunt so it would fit into my range box with all the other "junk" I manage to get in their.
On another note going to RCBS today, broke something. :oops: Might suggest something like the pictures the guy had , never know, they might be interested. They have the machines to do things like that.

Gun Runner

Gun Runner · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2005, 01:43:41 PM »

Went to RCBS for parts and then next door to Hunningtons to look around. Found that Traditions makes a bullet puller that has a collar and is threaded on one end and screw on the other. $1.98. NR. for 54 cal is A1280. Now to work on one of the cheap (china) drill bits I have and to get it to fit the collar.

Gun Runner

Ramrod · « **Reply #29 on:** June 23, 2005, 02:48:50 PM »

Drills are made soft in the shank on purpose. I routinely turn the shanks of large drills down in my lathe to make them fit smaller drill chucks, so I don't see why they can't be threaded. This has nothing to do with the hardness at the tip.
Gun Runner, as far as drilling into hard steel, if you are ruining bits your RPMs are to high, or you are not using enough oil, or both.

Author Topic: Stuck bullet (Read 1482 times)

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