Author Topic: 30.06 and .308 barrels (Read 987 times)

Swift One · « **on:** June 26, 2005, 03:14:02 AM »

I am thinking about getting abarrel in one of these calibers and was wondering what you guys thought about them. Which one is more accurate? I will use handloads out of them. Does the 30.06 kick more than the .308? What kind of 100yd groups are you folks achieving out of these calibers in your Handis?

mitchell · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2005, 04:02:54 AM »

i have both . both of them will shoot an inch or better but the 308 will shoot them all touching. the 30-06 will kick harder then the 308 and it is quite noticeable when shooting them side by side but neither of them have the recoil to be scarred of. i personally just like the 308 more then the 30-06, the 30-06 is a fine gun i think i've killed like 7 deer with mine but i still for anything i'm going to hunt the 308 can kill it just fine . go with the 308 you'll be happy , don't go with the "everybody has to have a 30-06 theres ammo everywhere" . if you handload you don't need ammo every where.

one other season to go with the 308 is how often do you here somebody on here complain about the accuracy of one? i would say that in a handi it has about the best track record then any other gun.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2005, 04:40:18 AM »

Now mitchell....you know some folks here haven't had any luck with the 308 barrel :wink:

Swift One...the standard 30-06 loads will recoil more than the standard 308 loads...but as mitchell has already told you...neither one is really too bad to shoot...I've had both the standard and the bull barrel 308's and both the standard and Ultra-Comp 30-06's...my favorite by far is the 30-06 Ultra Comp...it's a-lot easier on the shoulder than the regular 30-06and....it's just a little bit better shooting than my 308 Bull barrel....the 308 Bull was a 1/2" shooter with the right ammo...and my 30-06 Ultra Comp does even better than that...both using factory ammo...I'm trying to get my next door neighbor who I sold it to to try out the Federal Fusion ammo in it...but he's more than happer using his cheap Winchester Power Points in it... Either one will do well...just stay away from the cheap imported mil-surp ammo in them and you will do alright...

Mac

kenbev · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2005, 07:09:22 AM »

I too have both 308 and 30-06. I personally like the 30-06 but in the woods there is little difference. There is a little more kick to the 30-06 but it only noticeable at the range. I also think, (not trying to start an argument), the 06 has a little more range...

mitchell · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2005, 07:21:26 AM »

well true the 30-06 has a bit more range but if you can shoot past the effective range of the 308 your a fine shot. if the rule of thumb is 1000 foot lbs of energy for a deer then the 308 in theory could kill deer at ranges up to like 700 yards

mt3030 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2005, 07:28:01 AM »

I've owned two Ultra 308s, both of which I had extraction problems. I got them just so I could shoot cheap mil-sup, but they also gave me grief with Winchester and Federal factory loads. Both went down the road as just not worth it.

Plus, if someone said I could have only one centerfire rifle, it would be one of my 30-06s. (I think everyone needs one!!!)

Wally

mitchell · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2005, 07:41:50 AM »

Quote from: mt3030

Plus, if someone said I could have only one centerfire rifle, it would be one of my 30-06s. (I think everyone needs one!!!)

grrrrrrrr :evil: me no like that statement even if its true . there are so many gun out there that can do it all ( not that i would want just one gun) the 30-06 is just one of many . if it were me i wold be thinking 280 ai now thats your "do it all "gun

mt3030 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2005, 08:06:09 AM »

mitchell:

Thank you for your response. (I was waiting for it.) Could not agree more. That's why we have blondes, redheads and brunettes!! (Is this a great hobby or what?!)

Wally

Mac11700 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2005, 08:38:26 AM »

Quote

Plus, if someone said I could have only one centerfire rifle, it would be one of my 30-06s. (I think everyone needs one!!!)

I tend to agree with you here...if I was only limited to just 1 for all hunting...from varminting to heavy game..but it would be a hard choice over the 270 or 280 as well....I am so glad we don't have to restrict ourselves to just one...and is one of the main reasons I traded off my last bolt action...I'm strictly going the Handi route for my centerfires.it's really nice we can choose so many different calibers with them...and....I don't have any need for a repeating rifle right now...

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2005, 08:42:57 AM »

Quote from: mt3030

mitchell:

Thank you for your response. (I was waiting for it.) Could not agree more. That's why we have blondes, redheads and brunettes!! (Is this a great hobby or what?!)

Wally

humm did you mean guns or girls

?? they're both fun hobbies and they're both expensive.

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2005, 10:12:16 AM »

I carried a .308 for many years. I shot lots of Caribou, Whitetails, and Mulies with it. I still have a soft spot for that gun, but I haven't shot it in 15 years. The main reason I don't carry it anymore is that the maximum optimal bullet for it is the 165gr. With the 180gr the max. It's great for small stuff like Caribou and Deer, but that bullet is too light for the things I hunt. If I lived in the Lower 48 I would be using it a lot. As for range, can't really beat it. I've dropped crippled Caribou (shot and lost by others) out to 700 yards with that 165gr bullet. Yes, it will shoot heavier bullets but not as well.
Therefore I have to opt for the 30-06, where the max optimal bullet is the 180gr. I do reload 200gr and 250gr bullets for the 06. Recoil? I honestly can't tell any difference. Accuracy? Their pretty close, with the 308 maybe a little more consistent. Availiabiliey of ammo? The .308 is almost as common as the 30-06, Most places have it if they have the 06 ammo. The ability of the 06 to shoot the heavier bullets is the reason I like it the best.

Swift One · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2005, 01:10:38 PM »

Wow, I really got a lot of great responses!! Let me narrow it down a little more. First of all, I do like the idea of an all round caliber. I agree that the 30.06 can infact do that. I personally do not see me ever going after really big game. In Indiana, we cannot even use center fire rifles for deer. I was thinking about these two caliber for varmints, longer range target/varmint shooting (300-500yds) and maybe a deer rifle if I ever go to state and hunt deer where a rifle is allowed. That being said, and after I did some research on the 25.06 since I posted this, do you think that a 25.06 will suit me better for this purpose? I have found that 25 is quite versatile itself.

I am currently using a 223 BBL Handi for my calling rifle and like it alot. I also mainly hunt at night so the range is perfect for this caliber (I could pretty much use a 22 Hornet and get by just fine with most of my night time shots). But, in day time calling, I have come across situations where i have had shot opportunities that have in my opinion went past the safe shooting distance for quick kills on yotes.

So, with that further intell, am I still looking at .30cal or is it now .25 cal? Again, thanks for all the input.

mitchell · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2005, 01:30:25 PM »

ouch tuff question the 25-06 is built for the range but the 308 can go even farther. hummmm flip a coin or buy both your pick.

i would probably go 25-06 and go with the 100 grain match king and reloader 15 (i think might want to make sure)

handirifle · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2005, 10:26:00 PM »

These questions are fun to me. The reason is I go to the Remington ballistics web site and compare factory loadings.

In looking at the 25-06 and 30-06 they are not even close. When looking at energy levels, the 25 NEVER has as much as the 30, no matter what bullet you use. Looking at trajectories, they are so close it's not funny. How good of a 400 yd shot can you make? The 180gr from an 30-06 only drops 5" more than the same type 115gr bullet from the 25-06, all the while, retaining over than 400ft lbs energy more.

At 300yds there is less than 1.5" difference. I say unless you are recoil shy, why give up the extra versatility and power of the 30-06?

If you compare the 308 and the 30-06 then you'll be up all night deciding which one. They are THAT close.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2005, 05:09:53 AM »

I havent found too many manufactures web sites to be extreamly accurate when it comes to velocity ratings.Some have come close..but..all fall short of the mark.

Trying to compare the differences between the 25-06...the 270...the 280...the 308...of the 30-06...and then decieding which one would be "The Best "or do the best...is best done from the reloading manuals...unless of course your only going to shoot factory loads...then your kinda stuck with having to rely on them...unless you have a chrongraph at your disposal.....All of them all have their strong points...but ...it will depend entirely on the individuals... wants...needs...and recoil tolerences...type game hunted..and yardages of longest shot..and...if any dangerous game in the picture...

That is the beauty of our Handi's...match the barrel to what your hunting needs will be...

Mac

handirifle · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:19:24 AM »

Mac
Don't misread my intentions by using the Rem site. Reloads are what it is capable of in YOUR gun, but the factory specs are "generally" a straight across comparison of THEIR loads by THEIR standards. There are always variables, but it gives you a tremendous source of reference when all else is talk.

As for the reload manuals, Hogdons just put out their latest specs for the 375 Win using a 24" barrel. I'm not sure ANYONE ever produced a 375 Win rifle with a 24" barrel. Plenty of 38-55's like that but not the 375, so that is no indication of what my rifle is capable of since it has a NORMAL 20" barrel.

I think that site is a perfect source to see what the average box of Rem ammo is rated to do. They also allow for the various standard and premium bullets they load with as well. You get to pick whether to campare apples to apples or apples to oranges.

Federal has a load out for the 30-06 that is rated well over 2900fps with a 180gr bullet. That's creeping into 300 Win mag territory, point is if we compare factory load to factory load it is just about always a fair comparison.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:39:48 AM »

handirifle:

I didn't misunderstand you Bro...I just haven't seen anything on the Rem site's ballistics that hold water out of my Handi's...everyone I've chronographed has been off by anywhere from 50fps...to as much as 150fps...they like Winchester love to overstate their velocities...they always have...and your right...sometimes they do use longer barrels than the norm to get them...That's one of the main reasons I suggest using a reloading manual...one of my favorites is Noslers...it's pretty much on the money as far as the velocities go for their loads listed...and the other nice thing is...you can always call them and talk over you loads with them...not so with Remmington or Winchester...using the reloading manual...has another advantage..you can see the loading densities for the cartridge...which can play an important part when reloading for it...all of which doesn't mean a-lot to the non-reloader who takes no interest in such matters...but ...for those of us who do...it's value means a-lot...

There has always been...and will always be supporters for all the cartridges..everyone has their favorites....and the old arguments which is better will always be around too...owning a Handi rifle...takes away some of the arguments...because..for a fraction of a new rifle in a different caliber...we can have a barrel fitted...and have them all...or...ifin your wanting a something a-little different...convert one to it...and still pay way- less than a comperable bolt gun...

Mac

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2005, 01:51:13 PM »

Mac
Speaking of converting, was that you or Quick that got the 338-06? If you, where did you send it to and how much?

I think I'll send my 243 off to become a 358 Win.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2005, 02:14:46 PM »

Handi, Yes!!!! Both of us did the 25-06 to 338-06 conversion, I got mine last week and Mac should be getting his this week. Wayne York is the gunsmith who did the work, he's also doing a 38-55 Target to 405 Winchester for me right now....here's his web site with price list and contact info...

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eoregunsmithing/index.html

mt3030 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2005, 02:29:31 PM »

handirifle:

I think that is a excellent idea. The 358 Winchester is a great caliber and very underrated. I had two Handis in 243, both of which were junk. Wish I had thought of reboring to something useful. I sold one and have the other barrel driven 12 inches into the ground. Even with all the night water I've personaly delivered to it, it still can't hold up a tomato plant.

Wally

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:35:27 PM »

mt3030...would you like to buy a 243 barrel that really shoots good?

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=62494&start=0

Mac

mt3030 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:05:18 PM »

I know there are exceptions to everything. I was just relating MY experiences with the Handi barrels in 243.

No, thank you, not interested. The two I messed with would either fail to eject or would always put two together, and then throw the third who knows where.

I've been shooting these H&R singles for 35 years. I think I know a few of the tricks. But everybody gets to a point where enough is enough. I do not feel like investing any more time in a Handi in this caliber. I'll stick to my Remington 700 vs which will keep 5 into 1/2" all day in the p-dog towns.

I'd rather be shooting then fu..ssing with them. Like I've stated before: I love my handis when they will perform, but I hunt with all my rifles. If they can't be depended on to eject, or put three together, they are of no use to me. If I was just sitting at a range and wasn't depending on the rifle for a follow up shot, which can always be needed when in the game fields, it might be different. If I was retired and had lots of time to fuss with them, it might be different. If I felt that H&R customer service could be counted on and not make it necessary to return/return guns and stocks for correcting problems that should not of been there in the first place, or problems that their ham fisted 'smiths screwed up, I might feel different.

But when I'm not working, I like to shoot and hunt. I will not put these rifles on a pedestal. Some of these barrels are junk. These includes the ones with extreme throats, bad chambers, half rifling, over sized bores, undersized bores, inconsistant bores, off-center barrel lugs, excessive headspace, inadaquate lock-up, inoperative ejectors and weak extractors. It's just a case of luck. Some shoot great right out of the box (my 25-06). Some can be made to shoot better by following all the fussing rules. Some can be make to shoot by being returned to H&R (sometimes multiple times). Some are just tent stakes. (I did learn that they make lousy tomato vine stakes.)

My friends: thank you for allowing a fellow Handi-holic to rave. (Isn't that what friends are for?) I know I'll feel better after those idiots reblue my new BC barrel and send me a replacement buttstock. (And even that will cost me money!)

Wally

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:20:49 PM »

Quote from: mt3030

.....(And even that will cost me money!)

Wally

Call tag??? Or make em pay ya back to ship it!!

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:43:14 PM »

mt3030:

I like my Handi's...that's for sure...but I haven't put them up on a pedestal...they are for the most part...a good value for the money...at least for me they are...are there other rifles that shoot better...I'm sure there are...there will always be some that shoot better out of the box...quite a few folks like to fuss with them in hopes of finding those "diamonds in the rough"...and turning them into something unique that shoots good all day long...does it happen all the time...nope...but if you look at those who have posted on Quickdtoo's poll ...you'll see a wider margin still shoots moa or better...and that's coming from a rifle that cost 1/3-1/4 of what your VS cost...so...that is a pretty good value over all...

It shouldn't cost you anymore except for the time to ship it...call them...and ask for a call tag...be nice if you can...but don't take no for an answer...sooner or later if everyone did this...someone would have their butts in a sling...there is absolutely no reason for it to cost you anything to send it back...so they can fix their mistakes...it's one thing on a new rifle that slips thru the cracks...but not on a replacement barrel to have your stocks busted...blueing scratched...transfer bar fall out...or have any of the dozen other faults that we have been getting back from them...

I've been lucky so-far...and I know sooner or later I'll wind up having a "problem child " on a gun from them...but if I do...I also know they will make it right...it's harder than ever to remain cool and calm when your so ticked off you could bite a 10 penny nail in half...but...it has to be that way...if not...it seems like those that go off on the customer service persons...have really poor luck after that...it shouldn't have to be this way...but it's one of those sad realities of life...

I wonder what the return rate is on the total number of rifles/shotguns returned for repair is...if we could find out these numbers and compare it to the total number of produced guns...it might give us a better indication of the severity of the lack of Q C plant wide...but I kinda doubt we are ever privy to that bit of info...I just don't see anything like that getting to us...unless there is a total change of personal there...

Will all of the problems keep me from buying more of their guns...nope...like I said...I really like the ones I've had over all the years I've owned them...and it would take getting more than 1 or 2 lemons to sour my disposition of them...I can't say that for all of the Remingtons or Winchesters or Rugers or Berretta's or even Weatherby's I've owned ...cause quite frankly...I've had more problems out of them...than I've ever had from my Handi's...and that's no bull...

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2005, 02:08:24 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

mt3030...would you like to buy a 243 barrel that really shoots good?

Mac

your not selling mac are you?

? if so i thimnk i founmd you a buyer.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2005, 04:59:15 AM »

I've been thinking about it mitchell...that and my Topper Deluxe CLassic barrel...I would like to get a new or like new Buffalo Classic barrel and sites to play around with...

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2005, 11:10:47 AM »

well when you settle on a price i think i already found you a buyer. :wink: :wink: