Author Topic: Bad BP loads (Read 648 times)

Nixter · « **on:** June 28, 2005, 06:23:44 AM »

Ok guys and gals, I need some help. I am real new to reloading and this past week made my first black powder loads for the 45-70.

I have three rounds that I really screwed up on and junk. All three are fully loaded, primer, powder the works.

I considered using an inertia puller on them but the crimp (improperly adjusted die) is crushed into the boolit. I was concerned about the stability of black powder.

Should I just soak them in water or something to kill them or what?

Suggestions would be appreciated.

By the way I did learn from my mistake. :wink:

Thanks in advance.

Nixter

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:38:29 AM »

As long as you work in a spark free, static free environment, you should be able to pull the bullet. That would mean the kinetic puller would have to be safe for use with black powder, mine doesn't indicate that, so I wouldn't recommend using it. Plastics generate static charges under the right conditions and will ignite black powder.
A collet puller would be a safer method, but not practical for 3 loads, but if you anticipate future bullet pulling, may be a worth while investment. An RCBS collet puller and collet is about $25 or so.

Tim

Longcruise · « **Reply #2 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:53:38 AM »

Throw em in a deep lake and let the archaeologists puzzle over them.

Heck, it's only three cases! Also, go here and browse around for BP loading info and techniques. http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm

Quote

Plastics generate static charges under the right conditions and will ignite black powder.

An old wives tale, i assure you. BP is set off by heat. The heat can come from a flame, a cap, a flinter charge in the pan, and also impact if the impact generates enough heat.

There has been a whole lot of high dollar bp loading equipment sold based on that belief though. Most of the bp manufacturers today are selling their powder in plastic containers. Plastic powder measures and flasks are all the rage over at TC!

Forster used to sell a BP powder measure for cartridge loaders that cost well over a hundred bucks, made of brass, etc. :grin:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:12:52 AM »

Quote from: Longcruise

Quote
Plastics generate static charges under the right conditions and will ignite black powder.

An old wives tale, i assure you.

Ok LC, please show me proof of that statement from a reliable source.

Thx,

Tim :wink:

mt3030 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:14:03 AM »

Like Quick mentioned, if you are long term loading for this caliber an investment in a collet puller will probably be needed. But for this one time problem I have a suggestion.

This will destroy the bullet, but will have no impacts, plastics or heat involved. Place the loaded round in your press. Lift the ram until the bullet protrudes thru the top of the press. Use a large pair of side cutters(which I use), pliers or anthing else that will allow you to firmly grip the bullet. Now back the ram down until the holding device is against the top of the press. Now slowly continue the downward stroke until the bullet pulls free.

We've all been here at sometimes or another.

Wally

Nixter · « **Reply #5 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:14:48 AM »

Thanks guys, not real worried about the components.

More worried about safety. Can't just throw them in the trash can I?

My bullet puller is kinda like a hammer. Secure round in it and hammer away until it breaks free. Didn't sound like a good idea.

I'm guessing this is part of the learning curve. I guess I should buy brass by the hundreds instead of by 50 round bags.

Do you experienced re-loaders still ruin brass? My problem is getting the dies set each time, adjustments made too big and BAM, there goes the round. :roll:

I've bribed a fellow club member to assist me later this year in my learning. Pizza and beer (beer after re-loading) is a great persuader.

I guess a pail of water and a few days should do it then?

Nixter

Longcruise · « **Reply #6 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:20:29 AM »

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/mlexperiments/sparks/sparks.html

Quote

Ok LC, please show me proof of that statement from a reliable source

Tim, check the link above.

One other source is a ml shooter I know who placed an automotive spark plug in a container of bp, connect the ignition cable and ran a ground off the threads back to the car. Sparks ran through the plug just as it would in the car, but no ignition of the bp.

So, that also proves that BP would make a poor substitute auto fuel! :grin:

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:27:03 AM »

Hmmm, interesting, to say the least!!!

Thx,

Tim

Nixter · « **Reply #8 on:** June 28, 2005, 08:24:42 AM »

Thanks Wally, the press in question is a set of Lyman 310 tong tools.

I guess I could improvise and find something else to hold the round while I yank it out like a bad tooth with some pliers.

My main concern was safety

Longcruise, I saw this website once before. Thanks for the refresher and for bringing it to the forum in general.

Isn't BP impact sensitive as well? There lies my concern with the hammer type puller. I guess a soaking and yank them out with a pliers is the deal then? Or is soaking even needed?

Thanks for the help guys.

Nixter

Longcruise · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2005, 10:04:16 AM »

Quote

Isn't BP impact sensitive as well

I think its a matter of the impact creating heat. Years ago at a monthly shoot the sponsor placed a full can of goex at the 100 yard line and all of us (near a hundred) shot at once. The powder went off! Not with an explosion, but more of a FOOMPF. It was hard to hear since not everyone discharged their guns at the same time and the gunfire sort of covered the noise of the powder going off. The can had one single hole in it so at least one shooter was on! :grin: So, was it heat of impact or a spark knocked off the can? Dunno.

missed_shot · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2005, 01:10:01 PM »

Try some vice grips. Take the die out and run the loaded cartridge up so it sticks out above the hole where the die goes in. Adjust the grips to hold the bullet and lower the cartridge in the shell holder. Rest the grips on top of the hole and lower the case in the shell holder. It works for me.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2005, 01:28:35 PM »

Quote from: Nixter

Thanks Wally, the press in question is a set of Lyman 310 tong tools.

INixter

The tong tool isn't a regular press so the plier thing isn't gonna work...

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2005, 01:34:56 PM »

I've been loadin for 30+ years and when I quit screwing up brass, I'll think I did something wrong.

Like mt3030 said, I use the pliers and press setup. Works like a charm and is cheap too. Just be sure to get a firm grip on the bullet NOT the case. Case might still be usable if you can run it through the sizing die again. Be suprised what cases I have revived. If they resize well enough to fit in the chamber, fireforming will smooth them right back out. That's one of the beauties of straight cases.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2005, 01:39:05 PM »

Handi, how would you pull a bullet without a press, any ideas?

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:57:57 PM »

Well he already has the inerta puller he said, but I screwed up some 45-70 loads and drilled out a hole in the edge of a 2x4 that the 45-70 case, but not the base, fit into. Made it deep enough for the bullet to fall out and whacked it on the concrete garage floor till the bullet came out :grin:

Not high tech but it worked, several times I'm afraid to admit. :-)

Nixter · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2005, 07:09:58 AM »

Handi, my concern with the inertia puller is the impact sensitivity of blackpowder.

I really crushed these cases into the boolit. It's going to take a bit to get them out.

My RCBS Rockchucker is in mothballs right now while I re-build my bench.

The only re-loading I've done lately is with the Lyman 310 tong tool.

Old school all the way! :grin:

Not in any real hurry to get these things un-loaded. I've got more brass than boolits and limited range time. They are safe in the basement for now, cool and dry.

Thank you all for your responses.

Nixter

Longcruise · « **Reply #16 on:** June 30, 2005, 01:33:59 PM »

Nixter, you might consider getting a Lee .45 caliber taper crimp die.

Also, if indeed you need any crimp to hold the bullets in the case, then make it as mild as possible.

Some BPC shooters claim that a hard crimp will serve to swage your bullet down as it leaves the case. Not sure if it's so or not, just food for thought

Nixter · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2005, 10:35:09 AM »

Longcruise, no crimp was intended. It was late and I had the die adjusted wrong. Just took 3 rounds to figure it out and then I quit for the night.

No more re-loading at 3 AM.

Go slow and pay attention.

The rest of the batch went fine after a good rest and a clear head.

Thanks guys.

Nixter

Nightrain52 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2005, 04:57:56 AM »

Nixter-If your goal is to break down these loads so they can be destroyed you might try a small pipe or tubing cutter to cut the brass into.

Nixter · « **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2005, 07:39:32 PM »

Great idea Nightrain, go slow and it won't generate any heat to speak of and it's done.

Ingenius...

I like it.

Nixter