Author Topic: Trying a new Bi-Pod method..... (Read 4324 times)

mitchell · « **Reply #30 on:** October 26, 2005, 09:50:38 AM »

forgive me for saying so . but what fred is talking about has little to do with the bipod effecting accuracy and a lot to do with shooters forum and style (the biggest accuracy factor) . and the reason mac's gun shot so good is mac actually knows how to shoot . his 243 shot just as good on my (unmodified) receiver as it did his. now i'm not saying that the better latch springs doesn't help but truth be told he just got some darn good barrels and happens to know how to use them.

about the bipod , its been proven over and over again that most handi need that right pressure point (business card trick) but all of mine but one have shot there best fully floated and are just fine off a bipod but i really like this "moving it closer idea " and i think i may have to do some personal testing just to see.

myarmor · « **Reply #31 on:** October 26, 2005, 11:54:41 AM »

All I can say is that I like it. It has helped my Ultra shoot more consistant out in the field and even with target practice, now that I have installed it this way.
Is it right for everyones Handi? Thats not my place to say. We all know how finicky the pressure on the forearms of Handi rifles can be. And that everyones rifle shoots just a bit different.
The thought came up in my head, I tried it, and It works great for me. I thought, what they hey, if it didn't help, then what am I out and what difference will it make? I have 2 studs now....thats all.
But it did work for me.
There are downsides to it, yes. Like being mindful how you sit it down with the Bi-Pods extended. This is a 24" Bull Barrel and a little top heavy, so you get the idea. And what Fred is true. It will magnify the error of the shooter with control and shoulder movement. But like Mitchell said, it's all in the "shooters form and style" :grin: I like that

But upsides to it, it's excellently compact. The Pods don't extend past the end of the forearm.

I wish the pic's came out a bit better, but you get the idea. These don't do my stock any justice

mitchell · « **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2005, 12:19:38 PM »

Quote from: myarmor

But it did work for me.

souns like a good enough reason for me to try it. and myarmor i love the way that looks, real sharp!! can't wait to try it .

myarmor · « **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2005, 12:35:02 PM »

Well, good luck Bro. I hope it works well for you too.
I probably should have done it on one of my regular wood forearms first, in case it did'nt turn out so hot. But in the long run everything did, so no lose. :grin:

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2005, 04:18:02 PM »

Quote from: mitchell

its been proven over and over again that most handi need that right pressure point (business card trick)

and what would the buissness card trick be eh? i like pics.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2005, 05:13:32 PM »

Digger and others uses a piece of business card behind and in front of the forend screw to bed/ semi-float the forend.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2005, 08:49:31 PM »

FWIW...

I'm not a big bi-pod shooter...not because I don't like them...I just never got around to buying a good one and installing it...and with it back closer to the hinge pin...it just seems more Handi-er to me... :wink: How about a picture of it open...instead of closed...I'm interested in this please...

I tried the pressure point trick...it may work if you do have a weaker latch spring..this has been debated several times...it may not work at all...and make things worse...any time you put additional pressure downward on the forearm anywhere along the barrel..it will change the way the Handi's shoot( sometimes better...sometimes worse).....Fred has probably done more research on this than most here...and is correct in a-lot of his findings and cures...but so too are a-lot of other folks here and their findings and ideas are worth investigating...Anything we can do to improve our shooting skills and consistency of our rifles and ammo is what all of us should be doing....If each of our rifles were the same...each 1 thing we do to them would give similar results on everyones rifle..and we all know this isn't the case...This is our Handi Rifles "Bane"...no 2 are exactly a-like...and....not all of the latch springs are as weak as others have...as I have found out...but most can stand to be much stronger...this never hurts...but always helps.....For those who don't have ready replacements...just as Quick has said over and over...smoke the latch and see what you have...if it shows a uneven line accross the shelf after smoking it and closing it 2 or 3 times...take a stone to it very carefully and very lightly...if you take any material off the barrel itself on the chamber end...I feel you just made a major mistake...all fitting is done at the hinge pin...it has to be perfectly square...if it isn't and is loose and wobbles..square the lug recess..and shim it...til it fits perfect......I had to do this several times to get my 270 UC barrel to fit tight...and the tighter it fits..and still functions...the better it will shoot...As some have found out here when doing this...this is one place you don't want to go fast ...it's critical for accuracy to have the straightest and tightest lock-up...all the way across the latch shelf...and on the lug on the hinge pin...

By my using the Permatex RTV silicon gasket material...and opening up the forearm channel completely...1/8"-3/16" gap all the up and down the barrel channel..sides and bottom....and fitting the barrel tight to the receiver...it has now become a good shooter..When I first got it where I had a great tight lock up...and bedded it...it had some resistance to opening...just as my original 30-06 Ultra-Comp was...just as my 45-70 is......and this is what I wanted...it isn't putting upward pressure on the barrel ...but rearward..and isn't allowing the latch shelf to position itself lower against the latch..on firing..it seems to be giving a better bite on it by keeping it's position and taking out the movement of it ..the gasket material isn't as thick as the o-ring and is cradling the barrel fore & aft of the barrel stud...while the gasket material is pushing against the front of the stud.putting the pressure against the receiver on the forearm spacer....making the stock more 1pc...than like a 2 pc stock is...I have always found this was the best solution for me and my rifles...Will my way work for everyone...I can honestly say NO...but...like Fred has already said...fix the rifle first...then worry about accuracy...because if you don't...you won't have repeatability...and that my fellow Handi-holics...is where it's at.....

I can honestly say these are some of the best rifles on the market...for a number of reasons...but...you have to put the effort into making them work as they are suppose to...and you have to learn patience to do this...and have the fortitude to stick it out when your best solutions don't work....NEF won't do this on every rifle...maybe 1 in 25...and if you know what to look for before you buy one...you most likely will get a good one..and mitchell is correct...I have gotten some darn good barrels...but not all of them were this way...untill after I worked them over...a-lot of folks won't put 30 minutes into cleaning their rifles...let alone the entire afternoon handlapping the bores on them...both of those I sold you mitchell... I did this way...and this is where you seperate the ones that shoot...then the ones that drives tacks...while a-lot of guys are completely happy with MOA groups...I'm not one of them...I always want 1 hole groups...and strive to make them shoot this way...either by trying known factory ammo...or handloading for it...Once you do get it prepped correctly.. you have to feed it what it likes...sometimes you find a cheap factory load or a expensive one that shoots to your liking...other times...you don't...this is where you need to be up to snuff on your handloading...if you have to cut corners to save a few bucks...well...again..sometimes your luck will hold...but as many of us here can attest to this...it won't hold forever...save and buy the best equipment you can...it will pay off for you in the end......Now...you got the rifle...you got the ammunition...now it's time to pull the trigger...Yep...I've learned how to shoot these rifles...it isn't all that difficult...anyone can learn how...but many hate recoil...and the most accurate way to shoot these rifles is to allow the rifle to free recoil into your shoulder..or out of a cradle type rest ...for you math wiz's out there...do the calculations on my 2400 fps 300 grain 45-70 load with 56 grains of powder in a 10-1/2lb Handi...or my 3050fps 180 338-06 load in my 9lb rifle for the recoil that smacks me when I shoot......it takes a-lot to shoot accurately on a full day at the bench...but...either you learn to absorb the recoil..or you shy away from it and your groups open up...shooting this way..isn't for everyone...and you have to know how to do this correctly...otherwise you can get black & blue real quick...or worse...but..it is rewarding to see tiny groups...when others shooting $1500 bolt guns putting buck-shot patterns on their targets... and you just smile when you tell them what they costed you...

Keep up the experimenting...and sharing it with everyone...we all aren't to old to learn something new...and I for 1 appreciate everyones shared ideas...I've learned a-lot here...

Mac

PS...Thanks for the kind words...I appeciate it...

myarmor · « **Reply #37 on:** October 27, 2005, 06:06:10 AM »

Thanks for the great post Mac. I hope these will do....

As you can see, it looks like it is actually hitting the reciever it's so far back, but I assure you that it isn't. Is is incrediably close though :eek:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 27, 2005, 06:19:23 AM »

Thanks Arron...I was wondering how much clearence you had when you opened it...how far back is the extra stud in the forearm? I wonder if there is enough meat on the wood stocks to fit the newer type that comes with the rail...least wise you could move it a bit if needed?(just speculating here?)

Mac

myarmor · « **Reply #39 on:** October 27, 2005, 08:39:34 AM »

It's just a hair over 1/2".
The newer type that comes with a rail? Not familuar with what you mean.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #40 on:** October 27, 2005, 08:48:39 AM »

Quote from: myarmor

It's just a hair over 1/2".
The newer type that comes with a rail? Not familuar with what you mean.

The Choate forend on the Fluted Ultra comes with a T-rail that slides into the track on the forend.

myarmor · « **Reply #41 on:** October 27, 2005, 08:52:39 AM »

Thats the forarm I thougt Mac was talking about. The Varmint Choate.
But He mentioned enough meat on the wood stocks to fit the newer type?
I wonder how well this would work with the normal synthetic one? I don't have one to compare.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2005, 08:54:53 AM »

We discussed it at length on the phone, I'm sure you'll be hearing about it......soon!:wink:

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 27, 2005, 11:23:25 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Digger and others uses a piece of business card behind and in front of the forend screw to bed/ semi-float the forend.

ok and now to furthur annoy, how big a pieces, how far from the hole's center, and how are they fastened, glue or masking tape.? I really don't like to ask many q's but i still like to know as much as possible before trying something.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #44 on:** October 27, 2005, 11:45:37 AM »

LS, I don't know, never tried it, guess ya just try some and see how it works......just like other fixes, what ever works well on your rifle. :wink: I'm not keen on puttin paper products in the barrel channel, they would absorb moisture and certainly not be stable. I have used flexible refrigerator magnet material for a pressure point on a mannlicher forend that worked well....FWIW.

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 27, 2005, 02:44:48 PM »

yea there's that to consider but my mind again got me and i thought put epoxy around it to seal it and before it fully cures (but isn't sticky a lot) put it in the channel, set the barrel in and and screw it down (applying a bit of somesort of release agent to da barrel). the ideal result is a water tight piece thats conformed to the barrel exactly. Some sort of weak adhesive could be put to hold both pieces to the stock while removing the barrel.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 27, 2005, 06:44:23 PM »

ls308:

Read the faq's and perlo's fix by his bedding technique for using epoxy if this is what you want to do...the trick on the buisness card is to try it fisrt...and see if it works...then if it doesn't you don't have to do a-lot of sanding...

Mac

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #47 on:** October 28, 2005, 06:58:54 AM »

I want to try the least 'altering' mods first then make my way up to the more so mods if others don't work.

myarmor · « **Reply #48 on:** October 31, 2005, 06:12:36 PM »

And its a good course.
Like in my case here, tried Bi-Pods normal=it didn't take. I tightened the forearm with a Biz card under the plastic piece of the forearm. Stoped all play, when I opened the reciever up. Then placed a O-Ring under the forearm stud. But the barrel was still touching. So I took the Dremel tool to it for a couple of level runs , putting it back togather evey few takes with the Dremel, till it was floated and touched nothing. All these steps I learned here. I took my time, and shot my rifle after every small step I took. Untill I got what I have today. Like Mac said check the FAQs and try a little at a time if your rifle isn't shooting the way you want.