Help with first wildcat...6.5 JDJ!

[Biathlonman]

Well I have a barrel, brass, bullets, powder, dies and shellholder are on the way.  Hopefully SSK will include some instructions on how to do this, but I want to make sure I have it straight.

If I understand it correctly, I'll take the virgin brass, lube outside and inside case neck (can I use a q-tip for the inside neck, I don't have any thing made for this job?).  Run it through the die.  Now trim to trim length, or should I have done that at the start?

Then choose appropriate STARTING LOAD for primer, powder, bullet combination.  So what OAL should I use?  Does it matter?

Then shoot them and inspect for any cracks, dents, or other unusual occurances.

Do I have it straight?  If not please set me straight!

Thanks for the help, I'm excited on this my first Contender project!

[kirkwhitaker]

I don't have a jdj..but have been around them..do shoot a 6.5 tcu...not that much different...
jd should include instructions..but to quote from the contender load manual..here are his instructions on fire forming brass...
"In loading the 6.5 simply expand the case neck from 22 to 6.5 in teh tapered expander which is standard in full length sizing die.  Fire forming is necessary. There are  many methods and most work okay. I preferr to seat 140 gr bullets to just engage the rifling; in fact, it's permissable to actually seat the bullet fully in the chamber by slamming the gun shut twice prior to firing. The load should be crisp-almost hunting load to properly form te case on its first firing.
After forming never seat a bullet againt the rifling as it definitely does increase pressures......"
this was taken out of the contender load manual accurate arms section and is signed jd jones....
hope this helps
kw

[Biathlonman]

Ok now I really need some help!  I got the necessary dies and the shell holder so I thought I would try and resize the brass last night.  Well the first two pieces of brass I tried, crushed the case body before the neck was fully resized.

So any suggestions.  One possible culprit is my press, its a very old RCBS and has no real mechanical advantage, there is no real camming, so it took a ton of force to get even get the brass into the die.  The second question is setting up the FL resizing die.  I followed the directions the best I could from Hornady, but they lack something to be desired.  It seems really odd to me that the expander/decapping rod should be able to move up and down when the die is set.  I lubed the first piece of brass inside and out, then ran it up into the die.  With about an inch left before the brass was fully in the die, I could not get it to go in any further.  This from a lack of force with my press.  When I lowered the arm the expanderand rod just came right out with the expander stuck in the case neck...

Anyhow someone please help me....

[Graybeard]

The instructions with your Hornady dies should have told you to take the sizer apart and degrease it real well. Do that whether it told ya to or not. Then tighten down on that collect really hard to stop the stem from floating. This is necessary if you want it to work right.

It also sounds like you might not be using enough lube both inside and outside the case if you are collapsing the cases. Either that or you don't have the die set up correctly. You may have it seated too deeply. Put the ram all the way up with shell holder in place. Screw the sizer die in until it touches the shell holder. For any TC then back it off one full turn. Size a case and see if it will fit into the barrel with the barrel OFF the frame. Chances are it will not. Adjust the sizer die a wee bit at a time until the case just barely fits flush with the barrel off the frame. Tighten it down and go to work.

GB

[Biathlonman]

Well I tried readjusting the sizing die and still had the same result.  I had taken the dies apart, cleaned them and then started last night.  I had lubed the outside and the inside of the case neck with Frankfort Aresnal's spray case lube.  The lube applied to the inside with a Q-tip.  

I thought that expanding the neck was going to be a simple process,But apparently I was very wrong.  Back to the drawing board...

[shaleetoo]

Hi i used a 6 mm. nipple  first  and never lost a case  in 300 cases  . It works Lee

[kirkwhitaker]

have never lost a case forming 6.5 tcu...but i don't know enough about the frankford arsenal case spray..it may be ok for normal operations..but try some lee case lube or one of the other case lubes...put a generous amount on the inside of the case neck...if this still doesn't work...and the die is set up right...if you have any other hornady dies...say 6mm or 25 cal...change out the expander button and try sizing up with it first...if you are getting a lot of chatter while sizing...noise from the expander running through the neck..."squawwwwk"....then you need more lube on the inside...i regularly size up 30-30 cases to 375 cal for use in a 375 win...if you don't lube them they wrinkle or split...so that sounds like your problem...kw

[Graybeard]

Once a very long time ago when the Hornady collet dies first came out I bought a used (well actually more abused than used) set in 7 TCU. I had the same problem you are having and traced it the the tapered button actually moving on the stem. I'm not at my bench so not near my dies right now but I think the newer ones have been modified since those days so that's no longer possible. Still your set "might" be of the old type.

If you have the die set correctly and that includes having the collet tight enough to hold the tapered sizer button firmly in place so the stem or button neither move and if you have the inside of case neck properly lubed I just don't see how you can crush the cases. The tapered expander should just slide right into the case neck opening it as it goes.

Are you using an unusually fast or slow stroke either? Did you buy these dies new? Or are they old and used? Have you measured the expander button to be sure it is the correct one? And that it is tapeered as it should be?

GB

[Biathlonman]

Dies were brand new from SSK.  Right now I am thinking it is a combination of case lube and not getting the die set just right.  I applied quite a bit of force to the die last time I tried it and the stem would still move up and down without to much difficulty.  Guess I really need to lay into it to get it tightened down.  I am also going to order a kit for doing case necks and some powdered mica.  I'll post results from there!

[Graybeard]

If the stem is still moving take the die back apart. Use acetone or some such solvent to totally degrease it. I think you must still have some grease or oils somewhere on those parts that lock it down. You must get ALL the grease, oils and preservatives off for it to lock down. Then use pliers or whatever it takes and lock that sucker down TIGHT! After that it shouldn't move unless something is really wrong.

GB

[Biathlonman]

WEll I took it apart, cleaned it, and then used three full grunts and two cusses and got that thing locked down (Maybe permanently) and now it works very well.  Life is once again very good, but now I have some more questions.

Trim before fireforming or after?

[John Traveler]

You do BOTH, or at the very least, measure your cases.

BEFORE fireforming to make sure that you cases are not overly long for your chamber.

AFTER fireforming to assure that you have a case mouth that is square with the axis of the cartridge.  Fireforming frequently leaves an uneven case mouth.

[Graybeard]

After if needed. Chances are it won't be until you've fired it a few times.

When going up in diameter cases shorten. When going down in diameter cases lengthen and might need it before firing even.

To my knowledge SSK provides no information relative to the correct max and trim to length for the JDJ wildcats. This leaves you to wonder. Yeah I did write JD once and that was ONE of the questions asked. Got responses to the others but not that one. I never seem to remember to ask when we're talkign on the phone. Hornady does provide data and does have a max and trim to length for the 6.5 JDJ. I use the same for my .257 JDJ and on others use the parent case max and trim to length in lieu of data from SSK.

GB

[TopGun]

SSK usually cuts the throats so long, case length will not be a problem. Probably never. I used JD's advice and just loaded and went shooting. Fire-forming for fun is a waste of recources, he'll tell you that he hates to trim cases and fire-form wildcats! After you load his suggested load, shoot your 100 or so, then you can work up your ultimate hunting load. I think he describes this process in his book? But anyway, this is what he told me. I have had no problems, lost no cases, and love the caliber. BTW-Loads for SSK 45-70 barrels have different maximums that TC's factory bbls due to teh chamber/throat length. This is a well published fact, and warning by SSK. I'd be willing to bet it's teh case for all SSK chambers. My  358 is so long I'm afraid the 250 gr. bullets wouild not be seated deep enough if I wanted them to be just off the lands. JDJ likes longer bullets/caliber. Hope this helps.

[Biathlonman]

I have the Hornday manual and it has data.  I believe that my Hodgen manual does too, but I can remember that for sure.

I have yet to fireform any loads, but I was quite suprised that the lands were so far out.  to touch them 140gr. bullets are just slightly in the case neck.  I'm going to fire a couple this weekend to check on powder charge and all then load them up and fire them all.

Call me crazy, but even fireforming means I'm shooting, and to me thats not a waste!