Author Topic: Finding "live" rounds at the shooting range... (Read 1926 times)

IronKnees · « **on:** February 18, 2003, 04:50:58 AM »

I just had an experience I will not soon forget... I've been shooting and hunting all my life, well, since I was nine years old.... Over the weekend, while shooting clays, I wandered over to one of the ranges to do some rifle shooting, and I could not believe my eyes. Under a couple of the covered tables (ones with a roof over them) there were live rounds laying on the ground.... I had heard the care taker complaining in the past about hitting live rounds with the mower, but sort of blew it off... This really needs to be addressed, but how??? Any of you guys belong to a club or conservation league that has had to address this problem... I would like to table some suggestions at the next meeting if I can get some solid ideas... Thanks! Dave (IronKnees) Quick

jhm · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2003, 05:14:30 AM »

Dave that has always been a problem on ranges, we used to clear the ranges on a daily basis both of spent brass and the live ammo that was dropped or just thrown on the ground, daily housekeeping was the only way we could control it, the range area was paved so it was done with the large commercial type brooms as they were confined in a aisle-way. good luck.

JIM

IronKnees · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2003, 05:42:58 AM »

One suggestion that I am going to make is a "sign in" sheet. One of the clubs I belong to does this with great success... You sign in, fill in the time you came, your name, and what "rounds" you are shooting, I.E. .30-06, .45 ACP or what ever. Then when you leave, you sign out again... This totally fixed several problems at that club, because any gates left open, live rounds found, trash not cleaned up etc. are easily tracable right back to the guys who did it... It works well...

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2003, 05:48:43 AM »

I find them all the time up here in the north. Trash too. Amazing how times have changed and people are getting trashy. They even shoot glass bottles at the range up here. Pulled in one day and a guy was showing his girl friend how his shotgun patterened on the trash dumpster in the parking area.

DennisB · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2003, 04:40:01 PM »

Daveinthebush wrote:

...Pulled in one day and a guy was showing his girl friend how his shotgun patterened on the trash dumpster in the parking area.

The nerve of that guy! Everybody knows that's what road signs are for.

(Oops!)

IronKnees · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2003, 04:14:07 AM »

I proposed putting up a "deposit box" where you can drop any live rounds you find laying on the ground... The club liked the idea, and I am in the process of building a small, red, wood box with a lock on it to keep the kiddies out... If guys will just take the time to pick up any live rounds they find and drop them in, it sure will help the caretaker especially when he has to mow... :?

Bob_K · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2003, 04:07:28 PM »

At my local range it has been my observation that live rounds on the ground came from two sources: one was guys who had duds and no place to put them (or gave it any thought), and the others were those that inadvertantly dropped live ammo. I put up a dud box ten years or so ago, and the club started reminding people to police up any dropped ammo and duds, and to use the dud box. I clean it out about every other week, and have a nice collection of stuff in ten years since I put the box up. (Actually I disassemble and reuse/recast the components.) Of course that still left the rounds inadvertantly dropped, but the dud box has helped.

Of the rounds dropped, they tend to come from two sources: one, the shooter so intent on his shot that he does not realize he just elbowed some ammo off the bench, and two, dropped by youngsters when their parents did not observe them close enough. We continually remind shooters about how live ammo (paricularly rimfires) react with lawn mowers.

Interestly, .22 LR ammo occassionally showed up in the dud box that had been intentionally crushed with pliers. Seems the shooter did not want others to try shooting his duds. I carefully explained how the priming compound can come out of the rim as a source of the dud, and is now mixed with the powder. Crimping the round could lead to firing the unsupported round, with appropriate bits of shrapnel going in all directions. His eyes got just a bit bigger as he nodded his head in understanding.

volshooter · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2003, 05:57:12 AM »

I like the idea of the "DUD" box. I don't like the "signing in" telling what I'm shooting, sorry guys, no ones business what I'm shooting.
Rick

IronKnees · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2003, 06:28:31 AM »

The reason for the sign in sheet was dictated by the club insurance due to a huge amount of property damage being caused by members and non members alike... The range is situated right along side of a little league ball park, and a major 4 lane interstate... The insurance could not be updated and renewed (and yes, other providers were looked into) without some upgrades, including making access to the target end of the range inaccessible from the fishing ponds, a complete fence and locked gates... The sign in also was partially done as a solution to problems with some members who were found to be running off anyone who came while they were there... Membership acquisition methods were changed, and each of these things, in concert with the other, has really helped to keep non-members out, keep the range clean, and also to hold responsible those who were shooting up the chairs, trash cans and all the other damage... Its' too bad to have to do all of this, but it has absolutely turned a real mess into a very good facility again... I know what you are saying about not having to "sign in", but it sure has helped keep members accountable and fix up this range...

volshooter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:58:59 PM »

Sorry my point was not more clear. I don't mind signing in, I'm opposed to writing down what kind of rounds I'm shooting.

"You sign in, fill in the time you came, your name, and what "rounds" you are shooting, I.E. .30-06, .45 ACP or what ever."

I think everyone entering any range should sign in, name that is. Only way to keep out the rif-raft.
Rick

hawkeye1903 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2003, 05:35:00 PM »

For supervised ranges: many shooters, younger, and especially ones that have not been in the military don't know a dud is any different than spent brass. Post a sign with misfire procedure and a barrel with water in it clearly marked "duds." You gotta teach them, nobody else has. Basically - Bob K is right on target.

If a range is unsupervised, give it up. In college we shot at a range located on a 15,000 acre public hunting area, but only during the week - too dangerous on the weekend. This range served more as a dump than a range. At various times it contained a big piano, big motorcycle, several 50gallon barrels and other multitudeds of trash. No doubt dumped by many nonshooters.

IronKnees · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2003, 01:07:11 AM »

To Volshooter: I understand your point better now as well... However, as it was explained to me, there had been some problems with someone shooting over the backdrop, which, depending on direction, goes in the direction of the interstate, or houses and the ball park... I believe the agreement reached with the insurance provider was more for a "hypothetical" forensic situation than anything else... I.E., if a round WAS to strike a care or God forbid be found on the little league area, they (the insurance company) wanted some sort of assurance that they could trace it back to the offender.... Overkill, yes, perhaps, but we were so in danger of loosing this range, which over the years has literally become right on the edge of the town, that everyone involved felt incline to go along.... Personally, I really don't mind. However, I was not at all of the meetings so I really don't know how much opposition there was if any... Great range though, and all the awful mess we had is gone now... and it's a great place to shoot again... Dave

volshooter · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2003, 06:54:20 AM »

We done lost our range under an imagined similiar sitution by nearby residents. Good luck with yours. We have gone to private property.
Rick