Name the states

[williamlayton]

Name the state you would vote for as an example of the real, old west and why you think such.
I'll give an example in the form of a question.
Kansas- was it part of what we consider the classic old west or was it just a part of the westward expansion without contributing to the western lore.
Is it associated more with the Civil War or the west.
Blessings

[Capt Hamp Cox]

Don't think there'd have been as many "cowboys" as we know them without Kansas.  Just think how many young men and boys went "up the trail" behind a herd of longhorns from the late 1860s until the 1880s.  Just think Abilene, Caldwell, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Newton, and Wichita.  Think Chisholm Trail and Western Trail.  Think gunfighters, lawmen, outlaws:

William "Billy" L. Brooks
Henry Newton Brown
William Bartholomew "Bat" Masterson
James "Jim" Riley
Ben Thompson
Wyatt Earp
Doc Holliday
John Wesley Hardin
Wild Bill Hickok
Cherokee Bill

I think Kansas was definitely "old west", as were Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arizona, Montana, and Wyoming.  My vote would go to Texas, primarily because I'm much more familiar with Texas history.

[williamlayton]

Well, is there a difference in era here. Kansas' episode began in the 70's and by then Texas, New Mexico and Arizona had already established a western personna or saga.
Do we have need to divide this discussion between pre and post CW ?
Blessings

[Capt Hamp Cox]

Perhaps we need to define "Old West".  Take a look at http://us.history.wisc.edu/hist102/lectures/lecture03.html, which pretty much tracks with what I consider "Old West", and let's use that as a discussion start point and see if we can find a common ground.

[Holiday]

Well, I am gonna have to go with the reply, any state west of the mighty Mississippi. After all, this great river played a vital role in westward expansion. Sure, some of the states may not seem Western at first, but that is the result of a Hollywood revision of history. In fact, you can go further and add many of the midwestern states to the list. In Louis L'Amours "How The West Was Won", on of the characters is from Ohio. During the Civil War, he fights for the Union. Upon encountering a Texan after a battle, the Texan asks, "What are two WESTERNERS like US doing in this Eastern war?". I still say the West was a way of life as much as a place.

[Sundown Holly]

I would have to say California. You had the gold rush, Indian troubles, lost mines, cowboys (the Californios were considered the best of the best) and your shoot outs, etc. No less an authority than Louis L'Amour said that  Los Angeles, in it's day, was the most violent city of the old west, out ranking both Dodge city and Tombstone for it's level of violence including gun fights, shootings, stabbings, etc. A good book on the subject recently written is "Gold Dust and Gunsmoke: Tales of Gold Rush Outlaws, Gunfighters, Lawmen, and Vigilantes" by John Boessenecker. Very interesting reading. I think that most people would be surprised to find out about some of the things that happened from the bull vs bear fights (an early form of Sunday entertainment) to the mass murders, to the organized crime, to the efforts of early lawmen who fought them. (Bet you never heard of the California Rangers! But they existed!) California at one time or other had it all happen there.

[williamlayton]

Well since I'm put down, trampled on, ganged up on, and generaly spit on, I will concede to the house majority---dang it all. But i'm gonna bring this up agin and set tha rules myownway--sumtimes.
I will still say Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Colaorado and Wyoming. Cow country if you will. Now I aint trying to put down you boys from Kansas, it's just that I see all tha boys from the East hanging out there and the Great plains just don't set well with my own way of thinkin bout tha West, bunch of dang sodbusters. I digress with sincere apologies, an say that Those are my picks.
PS---I aint gonna include EAST TEXAS in tha mix as they are a bunch of sodbusters too. Nothin East of tha 100th Meridian. My final vote, under protest, dang it all.
Blessings

[Capt Hamp Cox]

Buck up oldwilliamlayton.  Shorely someone who's lived in three centuries has had to swim against the current oncest in a while.  Just makes ya stronger an more onery.

[bearblade]

No less an authority than Louis L'Amour said that  Los Angeles, in it's day, was the most violent city of the old west, out ranking both Dodge city and Tombstone for it's level of violence including gun fights, shootings, stabbings, etc.

I think it is still pretty close if not there today.

[prairiedog555]

I think Nebraska and the Dakotas embody the spirt of the old west.  Wild Bill was from Ne.  and we know about Deadwood.  It was not settled untill late in the century and still has lots of wide open spaces that foster an independent way of thinking.

[Shooter973]

I'd have to say UTAH!!! Most of the Westerns that have been shown on the Big Screen have been shot in UTAH!!! This may not jibe with reality but it is the truth!   Like Butch Cassidy, Jeremiah Johnson, most of John Wayne's cowboy movies, etc.

[rex6666]

Hold on now lets don't get Jeremiah all mixed up in this, he were a moutian man, he was here before
their was all those bada$$ gun fighters, he were some kinda bad dude.

[Graybeard]

When I think of the "real west" old or current Wyoming is the state I think of.

[navylawdog]

I have to say that all the states mentioned are truly a good example of great old west states and/or territories but I guess I am sort of partial. KANSAS, KANSAS, KANSAS!!! I have read hundreds of western books and I study the old west as often as I can and Kansas and Texas are used more than any other states with Wyoming and Montana running close behind. And we can't forget that "indian territory" also played a very important part in the lore of the old west.

And about the sodbuster remark.... My family resembles that remark and makes a heck of a lot more money doing it than most. But we have a very large ranch as well. So that is not all we do.

Navylawdog

[rex6666]

Their is one thing to be said about being a Sodbuster.
Any time you want to double your income all you have to do is put up another mail box

[zombiewolf]

For me, the biggest old west icon was the Texas cattlemen.
And where did they drive those beefs ?
To the lush grass prairie of Montana!
Fatten 'em up then drive 'em back to Colorado and put 'em on a train to Chicago.
So,
Texas, Montana,and Colorado, in that order.