Author Topic: whats the most accurate caliber handi??  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline sureshot2040

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« on: July 30, 2005, 12:42:20 PM »
hey pards
i havent been in here in awhile
it was because i sold off my buff classic and didnt own a handi for awhile
now i gots the fever again and am thinking abt a .223
i asked this most accurate question to several knowledgable folks at the local gunshow today and most said the .223
what yalls take on it/?
but....
heres the kicker, i would like to be able to do some hunting with whatever caliber handi i pick. and by hunting i also mean deer
is a .223 at all capable of killing a medium sized deer whitetail??
i know there are better calibers but.....
one of the guys today told me that the .308 was the best combo of accuracy and performance????
as you can see i needs lots of help here
so have at it
thanks,
sureshot

Offline quickdtoo

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 01:07:05 PM »
Georgia's regulations minimum caliber requirement is .22 centerfire, so a .223 is legal, but is a bare minimum and only should be used with good controlled expansion bullets, the heavier, the better. Unfortunetly the .223 Handi/Ultras don't have a good track record with heavy for caliber .224" bullets, 63gr to 69gr is the heaviest bullet that I've seen posted about that shoots moa or a little more. Most hunters consider the .243 the minimum deer caliber and some don't even think it's sufficient.....but if you have to stay with a .223, I'd recommend a bullet like the Winchester 64gr pp...

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=738047

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=68043

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Mac11700

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 01:27:26 PM »
Here's the past postal match results...these should give you an indication for the accuracy of them...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=67053&highlight=postal+match

Postal match #2...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=45419&highlight=postal+match

This was from the first postal match I was in here...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=34240&highlight=postal+match

Here's my range report for the 30-06 Ultra-Comp and my (now mitchells) 243 bull barrel...
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=62494&highlight=postal+match

Here's my view on our little rifles...sometimes you get a poor shooter...other times you get a one hole shooter...but most times you have a diamond in the rough...which means with the right polishing and cleaning...you'll have a real gem when your done :wink:


Mac
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Offline jason280

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2005, 02:36:01 PM »
Sureshot,

Good to see another GA member!  

Personally, I would never recommend a .223 for deer.  I know people have taken whitetails cleanly with a .223, but I feel you can only do this under the most perfect of conditions.  Of course, most of us who've hunted know that perfect conditions rarely present themselves in the deer woods!  

Now, before I get in to this, I have to admit I've never shot or hunted deer with the .223.  However, I have hunted with a .243, and I would consider it the minimal cartridge for deer sized game.  I've seen well constructed 100gr bullets not penetrate well in deer, and that leads me to conclude a 60gr .22 bullet would do even worse.   I like to shoot all my deer through the shoulder, and I prefer to always have an exit hole.  I just don't think a .223 can reliably penetrate two shoulders, and have my doubts about one shoulder.  I understand if you plan on shooting behind the shoulder, but there are always times where we don't hit what we are aiming for.  In those instances, I want to be assured the bullet can do the job.  

If I had to choose a target/hunting rifle out of the current Handi selection, I would go with a .25-06.  I know a few have had problems getting the .25-06 to shoot, but more than a few members have gotten excellent results.  Mine averages around an inch, and I've only scratched the surface (and have tried very few loads with the gun, mainly loads that I had left over from other rifles).  I know some may suggest the .308, but recoil can really work on your shoulder after a long day at the bench.  With the .25-06, you can shoot 87gr bullets for target work, and step up to 115's for deer, and the recoil is very nice!  

Or,  you could simply a .223 and have whatever deer barrel you want to it!
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Offline sureshot2040

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2005, 02:40:57 PM »
how is the postal match shot? prone?? seated?? sand bag rested gun??
what range?? 100 yards??
i ask because i want to duplicate it on my range to test my guns
thanks,
sureshot

Offline quickdtoo

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2005, 02:43:23 PM »
See the postal match sticky above this list.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline poncaguy

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 04:16:12 PM »
7MM-08 or 25-06............unless they bring out the 260 Rem 8)

Offline safetysheriff

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2005, 04:35:37 PM »
some years ago the .222 Rem' ruled the short-range benchrest competition.  you could make one out of a Handi' in .22 Hornet.

but, for my money, the most accurate Handi' out there now would probably be a properly-done .22-250, which also had an excellent track record at the bench, and still does on varmints.

a .22-250 with 60 gr' Hornady spire points will Easily kill a 250 lb' whitetail at 200 yds' with reasonable bullet placement.    i know landowers doing nuisance hunting who take large whitetails at 150 yds' with a 55 or 60 gr' Hornady spirepoint out of a .223!    the .22-250 is obviously able to do more, and Hornady loads it as a factory round with the 60 gr' spirepoint as a deer round.

just be sure that it is legal for the areas you will hunt....

good hunting,

ss'
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Offline JPH45

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2005, 04:45:35 PM »
My 44 and 38-55 are two of the most accurate rifles I have fired in a bit over 35 years of shooting. My friend has a 243 that is scary accurate. I also had a 30-30 that was a very good shooter, the present owner reports 1" 100 yard groups.

As to if the 223 is enough for deer, there have been a pile killed with it. I imagine that will continue to be. I could be counted in the "223 is not enough for deer" but I must admit that in good hands it does quite well. It must be remembered that it is a marginal cartridge for this work and as such is worthless for marginal shots. A marginal shot is not a shot threaded through a hole in the branches into the chest, a marginal shot is one where the animal is quartering away and the bullet must enter the back of the rib cage and travel the animal lengthwise to get to the vitals. The longer the range the more marginal this shot is. Even more marginal is a shot like this on game that is meandering through woods/ brush/ undergrowth but never completely stops to allow a precisely placed shot.

It sounds as though you are wanting a light rifle, the 30-30 and the new 7.62x39 are exellent choices, as is the 44 Mag. I don't think the 243 is a marginal rifle, but I do think the 25-06, 7-08 and 308 better choices. Some folks don't like the amounts of bloodshot meat that comes with the high velocity rounds, but the loss of a bit of meat is far better than the loss of the deer.
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Offline Norseman112

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2005, 04:59:32 PM »
A .223 will kill deer, however it would not be my choice. I consider the 25-06 a good all around cartridge. I know there are others you could use and be ok such as 7M-08.

Good luck,

Norse

Offline quickdtoo

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2005, 05:23:40 PM »
If I had to pick one Handi caliber that is truly the most consistently accurate, it would be the 45-70. There's not one post on this board that I can remember as having stated accuracy problems with the 45-70, and I have 4 of em (one converted to 45-120 of course) and they all shoot excellent and they have none of the problems that have to be dealt with of the other calibers, stuck brass being the biggest one. For an out of the box shooter, the 45-70 would be my first recommendation, it can be loaded mild, heavy or anywhere in between, factory ammo is abundant in trapdoor level loads to rip your shoulder off loads if you don't reload...And they're a hoot to shoot, ta boot!!! :wink:


45-70!!! :agree: :agree: :agree:

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline poncaguy

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quiskdtoo
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2005, 05:29:17 PM »
does the factory 405 have less recoil than the 300's? what is a good (mild recoil) load for the 45-70. Just getting ready to start my handloading....... :grin:

Offline quickdtoo

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2005, 05:43:47 PM »
For your bad shoulder, I would recommend the hornady 350gr and 28grs of 2400, nice, accurate load, mild recoil. With a peep sight, I get 1½" groups at 100yds. One of the nice things about the 45-70, it shoots just about anything with hunting accuracy and with not very much load work, can be very accurate.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline poncaguy

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2005, 05:45:59 PM »
Thanks, I have a Mueller 2X7 on mine and a Simms recoil pad.... :grin:

Offline sureshot2040

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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2005, 03:02:22 AM »
thanks guys for the replies
i have a sharps now in 45-70 and have just installed a good tang sight on it and am working on getting it to shoot groups out to 500 yards
the single best load i have found for it is 38.5 grains of imr3031 with any sized bullet. using the 405 rem. jsp it shoots one hole groups at 50 and 100 yards from sandbags. recoil isnt a problem to me even using the big 500 bps bullets over that load.
i also have a 30-30 buffalo bill winchester model 94 with a 26 inch barrel and a marbles tang sight that is capable of 7-10 inch groups at 500 yards
and last season took two deer at over 150 yards using rem jsp over 42 grains of w748
what i really want is the most accurate handi for extreme range shootin
on paper that i would use to take crows out of the cornfield and maybe pop an occational deer if one presented itself standing broadside.

i like the thought of the .223 as it is cheap to shoot using either factory or handloads and there is no recoil.

Offline Datil

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Crow rifle
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2005, 05:18:30 AM »
Sureshot 2040 Hello welcome you been gone a while!
 Hamdi 204 Rugar is real good for long shoot varmint
 shooting, some of the guys were getting kills out to
 400 yds at the PD shoot in Oklahoma! My son was one.

Offline superhornet

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2005, 07:07:01 AM »
SURESHOT2040-------30-30 AND 42 GRAINS of W748 ???  What is the weight of the bullet ??

Offline TOMMYY01

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2005, 11:53:20 AM »
I have a 30-30 and a 45-70. The 30-30 has a 3x9x40 scope and is deadly accurate at 100 yds. Less than 1/2. Dead  center! :shock:  My 45-70 is sighted in for 50 yds. 5/8 inch high at dead center. Aimed it at target at 100 yds, dead on, with no scope.  :toast:  can't wait to see the reaction when I get a deer with that caliber. I'm using 300 gr. coreloks. As far as the 30-30 ammo is very reasonable, 8 to 9 dollars a box. I'm shooting 150 gr. coreloks with that. :mrgreen:
                                                                tommy
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Offline sureshot2040

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« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2005, 12:16:10 PM »
hey tommy
sorry i left that part out pard
i use two different bullets
one is the 150 grain rem jsp corelok
the other is a ballistic tip 150 grain made for the 308
the ballistic tip carries farther than the remington bullet
but at close range it hits higher than the remington
sureshot

Offline superhornet

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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2005, 02:41:30 AM »
Sureshot2040-------30-30 using 150 grain bullets and 42 grains of W748 seems like about a 6-7 grain above max load...how long is that drop tube that you are using......normally W748 will be a compressed load for 110-125 bullets at 37.5 grains ..  I load W748 with the CT ballistic silvertip 150 at 33 grains.   What line of shot range is that 30-30 sighted in at to be on target at 500 yards...???

Offline ONE HOLE 4570

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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2005, 03:09:01 AM »
All mine are accurate as long as I am NOT shooting them :-D
No my 45-70, 22 hornet, 223 x2, & 30-30 produce sub MOA if I can do my part. 357 open sights between 2-3 & others 1.5-2 in scoped not target grade but good enought for me & my hunting situations
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Offline sureshot2040

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whats the most accurate caliber handi??
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2005, 12:50:35 AM »
superhornet
sorry abt that pard
i had to go look at my load data again
i was looking at my load for .270
in the 30-30 i use 37 grains NOT 42
i also use a tang mounted marbles sight to hit out to 500 yards
my regular sights are set for 50-150 yards
hope that clears things up
sureshot