Author Topic: Ballistic Tips and black bear (Read 2044 times)

Pruts · « **on:** February 21, 2005, 11:08:41 AM »

Fellas,

Just was cruising your posts and found a lot of great information. I am new to bear hunting and will be going on my very first bear hunt this September. Will be hunting over bait around Quebec and I plan on bringing my 7mm Encore rifle. I am currently shooting 150gr ballistic tips out of it with great success....on deer. Will the different physical composition of the black bear cause the ballistic tips expand too rapidly?

Also, what 7mm rounds (factory) do you recommend? After reading your threads it seems I might want to go for a heavier, slower moving bullet. Thanks in advance!

Pruts

NYH1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2005, 12:27:21 PM »

Pruts, I am going on my first bear hunt this fall as well. I'll be using my 280 Rem. I'm going to try Federal's 150 Gr. partition or their 160 Gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, which ever one shoots the best is what I'll use. I think you can use "ballistic tips" if there simular to a Swift Scirocco or Nosler AccuBond. I wouldn't use a regular Nosler Ballistic tip or Hornady's SST because they will open up to fast. Stick with a "bonded bullet" of some sort.

You didn't say which 7mm you have. If its a 7mm Rem. Mag. you shouldn't have any trouble at all finding a good factory load for bear hunting. If you hand load you'll be even better off ! Good luck.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2005, 08:04:45 PM »

Pruts,,

New york Hunter has it right, I would not use ballistic tip bullets on any game unless it was varmints, The caliber of your gun is great just use ammo that is better suited for bear. Nosler Partition or any of the better bullets is the way to go. Good luck on your hunt.........Joe........

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2005, 05:20:58 AM »

Quote from: oso45-70

Pruts,,

New york Hunter has it right, I would not use ballistic tip bullets on any game unless it was varmints, The caliber of your gun is great just use ammo that is better suited for bear. Nosler Partition or any of the better bullets is the way to go. Good luck on your hunt.........Joe........

There are 2 different kinds of ballistic tip bullets made by Nosler. There are the light jacketed for varmints and then there are thicker one for hunting larger game. But that being said, for bear I would use a better constructed bullet. You want good penetration for bear. Nosler Partition and Barnes X are great bullets IMHO.

Pruts · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2005, 06:43:07 AM »

Thanks, fellas! I am definitely going to go with a bonded bullet as was suggested. I'm looking at either Federal's 160 Nosler Partition or Winchester's 160 Accubond. Both seem to have similar ballistics and kinetic energy.

I can't wait for September to roll around! I never thought I would get excited about bear hunting, but ever since this hunt has started coming together I find myself dreaming of that big bruin materializing from the woods. Also, I hear the adrenaline rush is amazing! Not that shooting deer doesn't get me worked up, but I hear it's a different story when a bear steps out. Not to mention, I have only seen one black bear in my life and that one was already dead. Thanks again for the advice.

Pruts

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2005, 03:40:48 PM »

I'd go with a heavy bullet and try for a broadside shot right on the shoulder.That should put any bear right down, maybe not dead, but he isn't going anywhere.If there's one thing that purely gets the hair up on my neck is tracking a wounded bear through christmas trees,you know, the stuff you can't see your feet when you're walking through it.And if that isn't enough to evacuate your bowels, try doing it when dark is just setting in.....Do that once and next bear you shoot, you;ll wait for a broad side shoulder shot and anchor him right there.

Sourdough · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2005, 05:35:22 PM »

Pruts: The ballistic tip is a good bullet for what it was designed for, Varmits and small game. The jacket is too thin for large game and will come apart too fast on large animals. They are designed to expand fast for foxes and coyotes. Whitetail are thin skinned, and not hard to kill, so you can sometimes get away with a ballistic tip. BUT!!!!!!!!!! for Black Bear you need to use something heavier built, something that will stay together and smash through heavy muscle and bone to reach the vitals. The Nosler partition would be my choice. I'm fond of the Nosler Partition anyway, I use it for Moose and Bears here in Alaska.

Spyro Andes · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2005, 12:14:27 PM »

Pruts,

I would not use the ballistic tip or the nosler partition for a black bear stand hunt. Too explosive for the typical shot distance and not tough enough for the game.

I'd take a serious look at the following from one of the 7mm Mags:

Barnes X 175 Grain

Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw Bullets 175 Grain

Swift A-Frame Bullets 175 Grain

From a 7x57, 7mm08 or 280, I'd opt for the same built make and models but drop down to a 160 Grain.

Have a great time on your bear hunt, I hope it is the trip of a lifetime!

SA

Lawdog · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2005, 01:45:52 PM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

There are 2 different kinds of ballistic tip bullets made by Nosler. There are the light jacketed for varmints and then there are thicker one for hunting larger game. But that being said, for bear I would use a better constructed bullet. You want good penetration for bear. Nosler Partition and Barnes X are great bullets IMHO.

The largest and heaviest Varmint Ballistic Tip from Nosler is the 85 gr. .257 caliber. The so called Big Game or Hunting version of the Ballistic Tip works on lighter skinned game like deer but is a poor choice for Black Bear. At velocities near or over 2,900 fps., Hunting Ballistic Tips are noted for being fragile, breaking up upon hitting bone on even deer sized critters. The bone and muscle structure of a Black Bear is much heavier, pound for pound, than any deer. Use a good premium bullet like the Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX, etc. for the best results. Lawdog

Spyro Andes · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2005, 02:12:27 PM »

Hey Lawdog,

I agree that...

Ballistic tip + Black Bear + Close Ranges = Recipe for Disaster

By the way, you do know that the Nosler Partition is a 'comprimise" bullet by DESIGN.

The front half blows up like a ballistic tip while the back hald acts like a solid with poor sectional density. :grin:

Controlled expansion is the ticket.

SA

PS. You need to go on my group's antelope hunt. I'll probably have 4 more spots coming my way. We'll excercise one of your weatherby's on booner NM Goats.

PPS. I do enjoy getting into our little discussions.

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2005, 08:34:29 AM »

Say what you may about Nosler partitions but the proof is in results and experience. Universally all the people that I know living here, and hunting, all carry Nosler Partitions. Proven results on Big Moose, Grizzlies, and Brown Bears. In face the most popular bullet is the 250gr .338 Nosler partition. The one time my life was on the line, the Nosler preformed outstanding. I took a Caribou and a Moose this fall with Nosler partitions in a 30-06.

Double D · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:30:19 AM »

The part about Ballistic tips being wrong for bear is correct, double correct if you are drivng the bullets at high 7mm Mag velocities. They are most likely to blow up.

If you are using slower velocities 2500 to 2800 fps the Nosler BT's are a very good bullet. I use the 180 BT at 2850 fps in my 338-06AI and they are awesome killer on deer. The are extremely accurate and good long range killers. I used the 200 gr BT's in 338/308 AI at 2550 FPS on African Plains game and Elk. With either bullet at the slower velocities you get large wound channels and deep penetration without the massive blood shoot effect from high velocity bullets. You can eat right up to the hole.

I have yet to have an aninal take a step after being hit with one of these bullets. I credit three things for that. Good wound channel, well placed shot helped by an accurate bullet and luck. Well placed shot probably a partial component of luck.

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:35:59 AM »

Spyro,

As stated by Sourdough it's hard to argue with over 40 years of getting the job done and that is excatly what Partitions have done. I am switching over to Barnes TSX bullets because of the penetration one gets with them. I know if I can't Barnes I am going to fall back on Nosler Partitions. Lawdog

Pruts · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:36:50 AM »

Great discussion, fellas. I have really enjoyed reading your comments. Needless to say, the ballistic tips will be reserved for deer hunting and I will be getting a slower moving, heavier bullet for the bears. Sounds like the Partitions and Barnes X are good choices. I have the summer to mess with it, and I'll keep you all posted. Thanks!

Pruts

wijim · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2005, 04:03:14 AM »

the nay sayers on ballistic tips for bear are right.

i shoot 7mm rem mag. and started using fed premium ballistic tips (150 gr). the first three deer i shot with them were ok but i noticed some things that made me worry.

deer #1..muley....entry like a pencil...exit i could put my fist in. dropped her right there. why was exit so huge? because i caught a rib going in and bullet blew up and pushed all debris all over.

deer #2....entry like a pencil exit like a golf ball. butchering this deer i found shrapnel from the bullet comin apart from the neck to even 1 piece in the hind quarter.

deer #3 white tail. bullet went in pencil size...came out pencil size. it never expanded. 2nd shot blew up the shoulder and crushed the whole area. never exited ruined whole front quarter.

i switched to soft points for deer.

now for a bear i could seeing it impacting a heavy bone and wrecking it leavin you with one pissed off crippled bear. you got enough power w/7mm...but you want a bullet that hold together and does its magic all the way through.

Buckskin · « **Reply #15 on:** June 07, 2005, 10:42:28 AM »

They are a fun animal to hunt, they appear like ghosts. I don't know if your a bowhunter or not but you since you are hunting over bait, I recommend using a bow. You will find that killing one with a rifle over bait is like killing a cow in a pasture. A bow kill is much more challenging and exciting, especially if you are nice and close to them. You can hear them breath, eat, and sometimes smell them. Even with perfect wind they almost feel your presence. I have had several chess matches with bear and bow, fun too see who wins. With a gun you can sit out at whatever yardage that allows you to see the bait, bear comes in, you shoot bear. Heading to Canada this fall for bear, since my Wisconsin tag won't draw for another 2 years. Can't stay away from them.

Tracker · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:23:20 PM »

Another "NO" vote for the Balistic Tips for bear. I shot a small bear in CA a few years ago with a 300HH using 180 grain BT. The bear was looking right at me and I hit him square in the chest. The bullet blew up and took a piece if hide the size small pan off his chest. Fortuately smoe of the core stayed in tack and took out the heart and he really did not go far. Went back the partition and will never look back.

JD338 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:59:51 AM »

The heavier 7mm and 30 cal Nosler BT @ under 2900 fps will work on the average Black Bear BUT, there are better bullet offerings available.
The average Black Bear here in MI is 200 Lbs however, several are taken every year that weigh 400-500 lbs. With the heavier bone structure and potential of a large bear, I would use the Nosler Partitions.
I pulled a bear tag for this fall and I am going to use my 338 RUM w/ 225 gr Nosler PT bullet. I know that a 338 RUM is OVERKILL on a bear (Elk and Moose too), but it has become my favorite rifle. Every animal I have taken with the 338RUM has been knocked right off its feet with 1 shot.

Regards,

JD338

kombi1976 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:12:34 PM »

There seems to be a popular misconception that the larger cal BT bullets are varmint bullets.
This isn't true.
From Nosler company sources I heard it stated that on the BT Hunting bullets from roughly the .30 cal 180gn upward the jackets are considerably heavier.
JD338's comment on impact velocity is right on the button.
If you're using a magnum cartridge in close range the BT will blow up.
I might add that plenty of the other non-bonded bullets would too.
For non-mag cartridges a bit further out they work fine.
In fact they're arguably designed for it despite the fact that Winchester loads their factory 300 Win Mags with Ballistic Silver Tips.
But, yes, the fact remains that there are plenty of more suitable bullets for bear.
In fact if you want Nosler the Accubond is ideal....think BT accuracy with Partition penetration and controlled expansion.
It's just a pity the Accubond is made in such a limited range of cals.

ihunt49 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2005, 04:07:51 AM »

I've worked for an outfitter in Maine for black bears for 10 yrs. Seen 400 dead bears and another 400 live ones. They have been taken with every caliber and weight bullet. 2 things I've noticed over the yrs. 1. 99% of the bears shot in the shoulder go less than 30 yds. before dieing. 2. 99% of the bears shot in the heart/ lungs go less than 50 yds. - WHEN shot with a non BT bullet. They only way a BT puts them down as fast is when the BT hit's a rib and explodes. I've seen BT's shot in the shoulder, blow up, and we have a long trek ahead of us tracking the bear.

Just my .02

williek · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2005, 05:47:12 AM »

How on earth did all those bears get killed before the new super bullets came along?
Pick a top weight bullet for your rifle and it will do the job nicely, always has and always will.
However, if bonded bullets turn your crank- go for it- they will also work.
I've used 180 grain .308's for years and they work just fine. I used Barnes 180's one year and they didn't kill the bear any deader.
Good Hunting
williek