38/55 and hunting??

[missed_shot]

Now that I have my Target 38/55 shooting well, I was wondering how it would be for whitetailed deer and hogs? I am shooting a 250 grain hard cast bullet at about 1500 to 1550 fps. Would this bullet at this velocity work??   thanks  

[jerkface11]

Cant you shoot .375 winchester out of a .38/55?

[JPH45]

Cant you shoot .375 winchester out of a .38/55?

Factory 375 Win ammo shouldn't fit in a 38-55 chamber and allow the breech to close, the tapers of the two cases are different as well as the diameters at the neck. This is a generality as it is quite possible that some 38-55 chambers exist that will allow the chambering of a 375 Win case. The pressures are very different between these two, so I wouldn't chamber, even if it would work a 375 in any old 38-55.

The NEF is quite a different horse altogether. The rifle is chambered for cartridges that operate at the same or higher rated pressures of the 375 Winchester, but the chamber is weird, and I'd be certain that one couldn't put factory 375 in, we ahve trouble chambering stuff sized to 38-55 dimensions, but handloads are a different horse as one can tailor the resized case to the chamber. But then we have the question of bullet and bore size. To make a long story short, the NEF 38-55, even run to 375 pressures/velocities is a cast bullet barrel as it is not 375, but 379-380.

But it can be done, I am running the Lyman 379449 (a 264 grain gas check design) at circa 1900 fps. Plenty of punch.

As too missed_shot's question, that load is a twin to any 44 load making the same velocity. You are probably getting a somewhat flatter trajectory, but I'd be confident that anything you are confident in shooting out to 150 yards will find itself in your freezer. Try working down to as soft an alloy as you can push at that velocity, 20:1 or 16:1 lead/tin. As well, do a search, there should be a bit of info on making duel alloy bullets, it is possible to pour a pure lead nose and follow it with a much harder metal for the shank. Historically, loads such as yours were considered good deer and black bear medicine to 150 yards. Worked then, I see no reason it won't work now.

[handirifle]

What JPH said is true.  The 38-55 (The NEF barrel) can be run to 375 pressures (same as 308 Win by the way) but the cases are slightly different dimentions.  You can usually put a 38-55 case in a 375 but not the other way around, but each gun is different.

Point is it's not necessary.  Actually the 38-55 will hold more powder, you just need to find the right bullet and make sure it will handle the velocities you're trying to push it to.

I'm getting over 2100fps from my 20" 375 Win '94 BB using 38-55 brass and sort of homemade 250gr jacketed bullets.

By all means DO NOT try these kind of pressures in anything but NEF or higher rated chambers.  Any loads you work up, always start low and work up slowly.  Don't assume it's safe in all guns, even NEF's.

[jerkface11]

The speer book says .375 will chamber in a 38/55 did they get confused?

[quickdtoo]

SAAMI says it's unsafe to fire a .375 in a 38-55 chambered rifle...as was said, probably due to pressures and old firearms. So it obviously will fit. It also lists the 38-55 unsafe in a .375.

http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm

Tim

[missed_shot]

I wasn't paying attention and fired a 38/55 in my 45/70 BC. It sounded like I had not put enough powder in the case. My first sign that something was wrong. I now have a fire formed 45/70-38/55 case. Do you think this may be a new wildcat cartridge?  :-D  :-D  

[tommy_tsunami]

Using Buffalo Bore's ammo should be quite adequate:

Item No.  11
20 Pak Heavy .38-55
   
11C/20 255 gr. JFN Expander
sized .377
 1950 fps/ M.E. 2044 ft. lbs.

[quickdtoo]

Using Buffalo Bore's ammo should be quite adequate:

Item No.  11
20 Pak Heavy .38-55
   
11C/20 255 gr. JFN Expander
sized .377
 1950 fps/ M.E. 2044 ft. lbs.

Yeah, sure!! That oughta shoot real good in a .379 bore!!! :roll:

Tim

[JPH45]

The speer book says .375 will chamber in a 38/55 did they get confused?

I believe they are confused. On www.leverguns.com there is a link to chamber dimension drawings that include the 38-55 and the 375. Check it out.

[riverjackal]

I have a H&R Target Model 38-55 and the 375 Winchester round will chamber with no problem, will close and lock up.It will also eject the unfired round just like it is a 38-55.
No way am I going to fire the round though. Just my 2 cents

[JPH45]

I have a H&R Target Model 38-55 and the 375 Winchester round will chamber with no problem, will close and lock up.It will also eject the unfired round just like it is a 38-55.
No way am I going to fire the round though. Just my 2 cents

That you can do this is evidence of the variations in the chambers of 38-55's. Even older rifles have the problem. The only problem you might experience firing the 375 ammo in your NEF is bad groups as the 375 uses a true 375 diameter bullet. You won't encounter any problems associated with the higher pressure of the round.

[riverjackal]

Quote by JPH45
(That you can do this is evidence of the variations in the chambers of 38-55's. Even older rifles have the problem. The only problem you might experience firing the 375 ammo in your NEF is bad groups as the 375 uses a true 375 diameter bullet. You won't encounter any problems associated with the higher pressure of the round.)
_________________
Boycott Natchez Shooters Supplies, Inc

JPH45
 Yes you are right about the bores, a .375 speer bullet will fall thru my bore no problem, so if it don't engage the rifling the won't be any need to shoot it.
 I will believe the bullet bump up theory when I see rifling marks on a recovered jacketed bullet.

[tommy_tsunami]

quickdtoo

Are you saying Buffalo Bore made ammo for a .38-55 that won't shoot in one?  That sounds a bit odd to me.  I cut and pasted that info right from their website.

[cheatermk3]

riverjackal said:
"...I will believe the bullet bump up theory when I see rifling marks on a recovered jacketed bullet."

Well, I've not recovered a jacketed bullet shot from my 38-55, BUT,
I have shot ammo loaded with jacketed bullets (.375" dia.) that did not stabilize (i.e., they hit the paper sideways @50 yds), and I have been able to get the same bullets to stabilize by using a very stout crimp.  

How do I know they're stabilized?  By the shape of the hole in the paper.  If they ain't "bumping up" maybe it's magic that's getting them to fly straight?

Or, maybe I'm hallucinating?

[JPH45]

quickdtoo

Are you saying Buffalo Bore made ammo for a .38-55 that won't shoot in one?  That sounds a bit odd to me.  I cut and pasted that info right from their website.

No, he is saying that a .377 bullet is only going to ride the lands (at best) and that the ammo will not produce the best possible accuracy from the barrel. That is one of the great problems with the NEF 38-55, it needs at least a .379 bullet, a .380 won't hurt, if it will chamber, a .381 would probably be even better, again the cavet, if you can get it to chamber.

I think the NEF mismatch of chamber and bore/groove dimensions scares off a good many shooters, even handloaders, for no good reason. I was apprehensive for some time myself. I wish now I had purchased my barrel earlier. Strange as it may sound, the mismatches of dimensions lend themselves to making the rifle a supurb shooter for an astute handloader.

[quickdtoo]

Yup.... JPH45 said it all.  

JPH, If I wanted to shoot a 38-55, and it's crossed my mind more than once.... would having the chamber neck reamed a bit solve the problem? Assuming I would shoot the larger bullets in it, of course.

Tim

[cheatermk3]

Oh, Man...

EDIT:
Everything you need to know to succeed loading for NEF's 38-55 is in this thread:
38-55 loading thoughts, authored by JPH45.

do a search in this forum for 38-55 and chamber, use my or john's handle.

Darn, I can't seem to get the shortcut to the thread copied or I'd post it.

[quickdtoo]

Hmm, must be this one... :wink:
 
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=63539&highlight=3855+loading+thoughts

Tim :grin:

[missed_shot]

I too was very hesitant to purchase a 38/55. I went from wanting to wrap the barrel around a tree to loving it. I can honestly say that the information from the experts on this site got me shooting 2 inch groups at 100 yds. I do handload and that is one thing that made the difference. I also had to start casting my own bullets. My next challenge is to see how it shoots at 200 yds. If you like to tinker and want a challenge, I say get a 38/55- once you get it to shoot it will be one of your favorite calibers. The comments at the range are also worth it.

[Steelbanger]

Before I bought my 38-55 Marlin CB, I read everything that was on the various forum sites. In spite of what I read, I went ahead and got one, the dealer throwing in one box of WW factory loads. Since I had no dies, moulds, brass to start loading, I first tried the WW ammo, undersize that it supposedly is. With a receiver sight installed, that factory stuff shot very tight at 50 yds. And recoil with these loads was very mild. I now had high hopes for my 38-55.

Slugging the barrel told me it was .379 and when I began to cast for it, I sized at .379 and that works fine in my barrel with two different bullets, a Lee 250 and a Ripine 260 GC, which I shoot at silhouettes.

With deer season approaching, I thought of trying the 38-55. I sighted it dead on at 100 yds. with the factory load. Final sight adjustments before the season were complete and my son, unfortunately brought up with scoped rifles, tried one shot with this peep-sighted Marlin. His shot, fired on my target, hit within 1 1/2" of mine! He was surprised but gained some respect for open sights that day.

With 5 remaining cartridges from the original box, I killed a doe of about 100 pounds that year. Excellent bullet performance, a good blood trail and a short track job to the deer. Now I have 4 left and "one of these days" I'm going to chronograph them.

I now have over 2000 rounds through this barrel, most at silhouettes, some at targets, and except for 16 factory jacketed all have been cast bullets. But, everyone that shoots these allegedly undersize Winchester factory loads tells of their accuracy. I just don't believe I have enough financial resources to shoot 2000 factory loads in about three years.

[JPH45]

Yup.... JPH45 said it all.  

JPH, If I wanted to shoot a 38-55, and it's crossed my mind more than once.... would having the chamber neck reamed a bit solve the problem? Assuming I would shoot the larger bullets in it, of course.

Tim

Tim, I'm pretty well convinced that reaming the 38-55 with a 375 Winchester reamer will solve the problem, if it is a problem. I don't think it is a problem. I think we are wrapped up in a method of reloading that follows conventional guidelines. Anything that falls outside that "norm" gets met with skepticism. I think you ought to get yourself a 38-55 barrel and step outside the box. Worst case is that you will have to have it rebored to 40-65 Winchester. :grin:

[quickdtoo]

Or 405 Winchester!!! To have all H&R calibers, I need to have a 38-55 which means I also need a 44mag, 357mag, 450 Marlin, 444 Marlin, 7x57 and 22 Rem Jet....this may be a never ending quest!!!

Thanks,

Tim