Author Topic: .416 Barnes? (Read 700 times)

kombi1976 · « **on:** August 15, 2005, 03:15:41 PM »

Anyone use this?
Apparently it's 45-70 necked down to .416 cal.
Is this correct?
The reason I'm interested is that I like .416 Rigby but am unable to effectively make it work in a large frame Martini action, which coincidentally do work really well with 45-70.
The other factor is that 45-70 is a BP cartridge and I want something I can use for BP/lead-pill loads as well as jacketed/smkeless loads.
If there are any BP cartridges(like 40-65) that would also be suitable for this sort of thing i.e.that it's possibile to buy premium big game bullets for I'm also interested although necking down 45-70 makes for a much more reliable supply of brass.

onesonek · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2005, 01:56:11 AM »

To be honest,Im not sure how BP reacts in bottlenecks, such as the 416 Barnes. Maybe someone will chime in that has tried it.
My first thoughts are either the 40-65 or 405 would be good. Either could be necked up and blown out to a straight taper for a 416 caliber. They would work well with BP. The 40-65 being a 45-70 case sized down would be the easiest if that is hows the Martini is set up. The 405 has a smaller casehead and rim, may require some fiddling. I'm not familar with that action.
Dave

kombi1976 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2005, 04:33:16 AM »

303 Brit and 8x57 must've been fine as BP cartridges as this was their original load yet they're bottle neck rounds.
On that basis the .416 Barnes should be fine.
Could be wrong though.

onesonek · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2005, 04:40:39 PM »

You very well could be right, I was kinda thinking they came in with the Cordite era. :wink:
Dave

kombi1976 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:21:28 PM »

Nop, just before cordite.
The 8x57J(loaded with an RN, not the later spitzer) was loaded with BP for the 1888 German Commission Rifle.
303 Brit BP was originally used in the Martini Enfield.
As far as I know the first military round using smokeless was 7x57, at least the first used in combat.

Wildcat Crazy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 19, 2005, 09:43:32 AM »

The 8x50R was adopted in 1886 for the Lebel rifle by France, it was only loaded with smokeless powder, making it the first smokeless powder rifle adopted by the military.

The 6.5x52 Carcano was used in the Ethiopian /Italian War from 1893-1896,it was a smokeless powder round.The Carcano was adopted in 1891.

Spain adopted the 7x57 Mauser in 1892.I believe the first combat the 7x57 saw,other than against rebels in Cuba was during the Spanish-American War in 1898.

At one time most of Europe and Asia were armed with rifles firing bottlenecked blackpowder cartridge rifles.

Bottlenecked blackpowder rounds were common in the latter 1800s,some of the renowned target cartridges in both Europe and the U.S.A. were such.Most of the blackpowder bottlenecked rounds had shoulder angles less than 10 degrees,the sharpest angle I have seen on a BP round was less than20 degrees.

I have never been able to achieve as good an accuracy with BP in bottlenecked cases as I can with smokeless.

I have no experience with the .416 Barnes,keep us posted if you try it.

WC

kombi1976 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2005, 04:55:13 AM »

I stand corrected.
As for BP versus smokeless I can't make any judgements.