Author Topic: losing " Club Gitmo "...  (Read 2828 times)

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Online ironglow

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« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2005, 12:25:50 PM »
Magooch;
   Those Iraqi Muslims too !
  A couple months ago I was talking to a Marine friend of my grandson.
 He (Shane) had just returned from Djbouti.
  The temperature was really high, often between 120 7 130 F....but the temperature wasn't the tough part of duty there. The tough part was fighting of the native troops they had to serve with.
  Shane said those Muslims in Djbouti seem to think their women are for reproduction..while their service "buddies" are special...

 Unbelieveacable !!!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Online ironglow

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« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2005, 05:31:56 PM »
What else can we expect from savages that cut people's arms, tongues, feet and heads off just for sport..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline pffft

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« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2005, 06:40:29 AM »
So what would arguing on behalf of terrorists really do for any American, except to show an extreme lacking in common sense?

On giving up freedoms, Americans have a rather long history of voluntarily giving up some of their freedoms.
Most were lost at the altar when you said "I do", continuing as it became necessary to keep the marriage solid, and likely losing more than you regained if your marriage happened to end in divorce.

Obviously some people haven't considered how the freedom of privacy is lost when using a cell phone or talking on a two-way radio, or how all rights of privacy are completely lost after connecting to the Internet?

However, some Americans do enjoy one extra freedom. That would be the one for liberals who sympathize with terrorists, openly exercising their freedom to be stupid.

THE PATRIOT ACT'S IMPACT ON THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO CONDUCT ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE OF
ONGOING DOMESTIC COMMUNICATIONS
http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj52p179.htm

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2005, 04:21:14 PM »
gotta agree with GB and Jon. its a slippery slope and if we start to eliminate rights for ANY reason, to ANYONE, we begin to slide down it.

they are scum, yes. but they are humans and thus have the rights we have agreed are present in all humans.

where the heck do you guys get off sayinf dumb stuff like inject em with aids or drop em from helicopters? if they are guilty we kill em or imprison em. no reason to be cruel or obnoxious about it.

its just that sort of thing that the libs throw on the pile of things they use against us. you think the general populace would consider comments like that Christian, or moral? you think the libs would stop and explain that you were just ticked off and its ok now?

i feel this as deeply as any of you and i love my country with everything in me. but i cant see how beginning a moral decline, torturing prisoners, and violating basic human rights along with taking one more step toward being like them....is going to serve America.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline big medicine

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« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2005, 05:17:12 PM »
Quote
where the heck do you guys get off sayinf dumb stuff like inject em with aids or drop em from helicopters?


You were probably 3 years old when my buddies were being shipped back home in silver boxes. I dont expect you to understand. They were my friends, guys I knew, guys that I laughed with, drank a few beers with, sat around on a Friday night BSing about what we were going to do with our lives ect. They are not just faceless names in a history book, they were my friends and they lost their lives because some ahole drove a truck bomb into where they slept and friggin killed them. I wanted to kill them then and would kill them now and have no remorse what so ever.

You can call them what you want, but they are NOT soldiers they have no honor, they are plain and simple terrorist and deserve to delt with as such. They have no rights as far as I'm concerned. Respect is a two way street. You have to be respectfully to be respected. They have no respect for others, yet we are expected or demanded to respect them.

But no, we will end up kissing their butts, paying them for their inconvenience, tell them we are sorry and didnt mean to offend them. Then send them back to kill more innocent people.

 We didnt have the spine to do what needed to be done then, and we sure dont have it now. We just piss away the lives of young Americans never finishing the job, only to turn around a few years later and do it all over again. This will go on for generations to come if we do not finish it once and for all now.

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2005, 06:54:54 PM »
i wasnt arguing any of your points. i agree with almost all of what you said. however we cannot condemn their actions and then act LIKE them, for instance, saying outlandish things and threatening them based on their religious views, and doing horrible things to them while theyre in custody. thats what THEY do. we have to act like the honorable victors we are. thats all i was saying.

our boys are number one in my book...they dont pay at my restaurant and they get whatever they need from me.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline pffft

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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2005, 07:05:00 PM »
As usual, there are no answers from the left, who are in fact, terrorist sympathizers.
You show your concerns, but are they prompted by fear of what the left would say? I hope not.

Having a good basis on world events is most valuable these days since we can no longer depend on accurate reports from the media.
Times, ideals, methods have changed, and few have the time anymore to fully research all of the details previously made available when reporters had better conscience.
Political influence is but only one of the many current struggles.
Watch what the liberals begin to harp about, and it's a good chance the administration talked about it first.

BTW, everyone knows what will happen with the Gitmo prisoners.
The left wants all the glory.
In the meantime, they accuse the right of being everything the left is guilty of.

Offline doc_kreipke

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« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2005, 03:52:17 AM »
So the Marines capture a man of Jordanian nationality who slipped across the Syrian border into Iraq. He has no allegiance to any country but is driven by hatred for America, Israel, and democracy. Maybe he's been shooting at the Marines, maybe he has the detonator to an improvised explosive device, maybe a bomb to blow up Iraqi men & women waiting to vote in the constitutional referendum. And perhaps he has information as to the identity of the next Iraqi charity organizer who's going to get a bullet in the head.

But the terrorist appeasement faction wants us to read him Miranda rights, get him a lawyer, and put him up in a four-star hotel. Give him the same constitutional rights as someone who actually works in and contributes to this country. Because, after all, embarrassing the guy is just as heinous as slitting the throat of a Korean truck driver.

But we, too, condemn the jihadists, the liberals intone.

Methinks they doth protest too much.
-K

Offline Graybeard

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« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2005, 04:07:04 AM »
Hmm doc, I've read this entire thread and haven't seen anyone mention doing any of that except you in that last post. Haven't even read anything that makes me think anyone posting is suggesting any such. Perhaps a reread on your part is in order. Clearly there is some misunderstanding of people's intentions here.


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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2005, 08:27:35 AM »
“The left wants all the glory.”

Your right, I remember it now, it was Ted Kennedy in a fight suit and Hillary Clinton in BDUs standing on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln underneath a banner proclaiming MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

And who can forget, John Kerry, rated the most liberal Senator, by the National Journal, defiantly telling terrorists, “BRING IT ON”

The war on terror is not something we sought, but if we put aside ideological rhetoric it is one we can win.  The pandering displayed by, our political demigods, left and right, has done more harm to this country than the terrorists.

Take a good look at Iraq; we have a force ratio of about 6 soldiers per 1000 of population. In the US we have about 2.5 law enforcement officers per 1000 population, with support personnel it is about 3.1 per 1000.

The Army War College doctrine holds that for successful nation building and suppression of an insurgency the post-invasion force ratio should be 20 to 1. In the Bosnia-Serbian operations the ratio was about 22 to 1.

After the defeat of Germany the US deployed over 9 full divisions, in just the American sector of occupation, for about 18 months. This was a force ratio of just under 20 to 1 in the American sector alone, this in a country that was nearly totally demolished and demoralized.

When General Eric K. Shinseki, former Army Chief of Staff, was asked how many troops would it take to occupy and pacify post-invasion Iraq, by a congressional committee, he said several hundred thousand, and was soon retired and replaced.

Several hundred thousand is at least 200,000. Considering IraqÂ’s population is about 25,000,000 an ideal force ratio of 20 to 1 would have meant 500, 000 occupying Iraq after the invasion.

Also of interest, is that in Afghanistan, the force ratio is less than 1to 1000 population, which probably explains why, Ossama is still on the loose, heroin poppy production is up, and why President Karzai, is barely more than the mayor of Kabul.

We have asked our troops to perform a mission, which ignores military doctrine, and because of it they will suffer increased casualties, as will the civilians in the countries that made up the coalition.

Just like McNamara and the “whiz kids”, during Viet Nam, this administration believes it is a lot smarter than the military professionals when it comes to war, and proof of their superior abilities keep piling up, body by body.

Before any say that Bush has stated many times, that if the commanders in the field request more personnel he would send them; remember to get stars you have to be put up by the Secretary of Defense, and confirmed by the senate, so disagreeing with “the party line” is not a step for success, just ask Former Secretary of State Powell, or General Shinseki.

If the war on terror is to be won then it must fought, on the basis of military doctrine not political expediency.

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Offline pffft

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« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2005, 03:10:13 PM »
Best to make use of new developments.
This is a better answer that is very informative and right on track.
It circumvents a lot of the muck that liberal leadership condones.
http://www.iht.com/protected/articles/2005/08/04/opinion/edbrooks.php

Offline powderman

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« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2005, 03:45:18 PM »
fe. The only way you would approve of GW would be if he turned traitor, and registered as a dumcrap. We had so many troops in Germany after the war more to stop the ruskies, than the krauts.  POWDERMAN.  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?  :?
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2005, 05:47:09 PM »
WhatÂ’s wrong with this picture?

Between 3/19/03, when the war began, and 5/1/03, when MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was announced, US forces suffered, 137 deaths.  Since declaring, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, US forces have suffered, 1707 deaths.

Do you find it odd that the number of deaths suffered by US forces, after the Commander in Chief, declares the mission was accomplished, are over ten times more than then the number of deaths suffered in accomplishing the mission?

There is not another example in US history, where the post conquest death toll, exceeded the death toll incurred during the conquest.

It is not a question of approving or disapproving; it is a question of minimizing US casualties, and finishing what we started.  Powell was right with the Pottery Barn analogy, you break you own it, to quash the insurgency and provide the stability needed for there to be any chance of democracy taking root in Iraq, long term, requires more forces than the President apparently willing to commit.  What I am honestly fearful of, is another early “victory” declaration, our quick exit, and Iraq becoming another Iran.

So far the President has chosen political expediency over conviction in achieving the stated goals for Iraq.  The President and this country have an opportunity to be remembered by history, as having provided the impetus for the birth of democracy in the Middle East, however if we “stay the course” it is beginning to appear that our stated goals will turn out to be empty rhetoric.

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Offline pffft

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« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2005, 09:40:37 PM »
The casualties of the Iraq war have been minimal, being far less than the battle for Iwo Jima alone. A two month effort during WW2.
You might want to start another thread regarding the casualties of the Iraq war.
Just remember they have given the ultimate sacrifice and deserve our respect rather than just being used as a statistic for those who oppose our administration.
Regarding the Gitmo prisoners, and typical of the left, "The congressional record shows that in the aggregate, Democrats have voiced greater outrage over American abuse of prisoners than they have over Muslim support for atrocities".
Another fine example of the misguided left at its finest.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20050810-092827-7470r.htm

Offline big medicine

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« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2005, 09:41:38 PM »
Quote
Between 3/19/03, when the war began, and 5/1/03, when MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was announced, US forces suffered, 137 deaths. Since declaring, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, US forces have suffered, 1707 deaths.

Do you find it odd that the number of deaths suffered by US forces, after the Commander in Chief, declares the mission was accomplished, are over ten times more than then the number of deaths suffered in accomplishing the mission?


What are you going to compare it to? Are you serious? You also have to look at it from the stand point that in other wars or conflicts we had a lot more than 137 KIA to get the same job done. Take WWII for instance. We had more men KIA on 6 June 1944 than we have lost to date in Iraq. Funny things do happen. It is too bad you cant go back and figure how many men died in occupation of Germany and Japan over the 10+ years it took to turn over operations back to them.
Quote
It is not a question of approving or disapproving; it is a question of minimizing US casualties, and finishing what we started.

I would say that casualties have been minimized. But the way you minimize casualties is by kicking the daylights out of your enemy until they dont get back up. Not just lob a couple bombs their way and call it good. It is something you cant put a time frame on. But for some reason people have this idea that we can put a 6 month time frame on it and we should be done. We wont finish this job, we have not finished a job since WWII. Because a press tells the American public the causes are hopeless. All we have done is squander away American lives. I think the press likes it that way. They have security knowing that they will be able to show dead GIs on TV. They dont want the job finished.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2005, 03:29:41 AM »
BIG MEDICINE. There ya go making sense again. Ya can't talk common sense to a libby. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2005, 10:15:37 AM »
Actually I agree with Big,

“But the way you minimize casualties is by kicking the daylights out of your enemy until they dont get back up. Not just lob a couple bombs their way and call it good.”

I may have not supported the invasion, but once troops were committed, the debate was over.  

I believe we would be better served using a “sledge hammer”, instead of a “fly swatter”, to crush the insurgency.  I also believe that our occupation casualties would have been less if a larger number of troops had been deployed, after it became obvious that the insurgent resistance was strengthening.

In situations, when faced by a dedicated unconventional indigenous resistance, the occupying force, must be larger than then would be needed, to defeat a similar sized conventional force, otherwise the occupation becomes a test of wills and attrition.

As the indigenous force are fighting in their homeland, their resolve is usually stronger than the occupier and, considering that the religious leaders of the insurgency have couched this in terms of a “Holy War”, and the religious beliefs of the insurgents, provide a “heavenly reward”, for those who “defend the faith”, attrition is not a factor in their continuing resistance.  If the pentagon is to be believed, it would appear that the insurgents have gladly endured 10, 20, or 30 to 1 kill ratios.  The US as an occupier, is faced with a population that view the loss of life in a different prospective than the population that spawned the insurgents, and have a much lower tolerance for casualties, and thus in a war of attrition the insurgency has a distinct advantage.

The administration’s refusal to reassess the situation and deploy sufficient resources to enable us “kicking the daylights out” out of the insurgents, and continue with a policy that is becoming a war of will and attrition, which favors the success of the insurgency, is one that disregards the lives of our troops.

If the mission is now to stabilize Iraq so that democracy can become firmly rooted there, than commit the resources to do it, instead of allowing our troops to become piece meal casualties, while making platitudes.

One thing both liberals and conservatives should be able to agree about is, that democracy is good.  With that commonality established, the question is how best to insure it takes place and is long term in Iraq.  I do not believe “staying the course” provides the best opportunity for this to occur, and think that democracy has a better chance if we would deploy sufficient resources to, if not eliminate, greatly lessen the will of the insurgency to attack, as what we have been doing does not appear to be.

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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2005, 12:03:52 PM »
I have to say I agree with you.

 My fear has been from day one that this will end as every other operation since the end of WWII has ended. American lives lost and a job unfinished. We need to just do it and get it over with, not worry about who we upset, if they want some of it give them a fist full also.

Online ironglow

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« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2005, 11:59:27 PM »
I wish it were as FE said...once we commit the troops " the arguing is over ". That's the way it was in Bosnia-Herzgovina...and we had LESS reason for being there...protecting the Muslims ( so what thanks did we get ?).
   Nevertheless; we are Americans...we didn't riot against the administration that we conservatives may well not have agreed with, thereby encouraging the enemy..

  No, we stood together as Americans, is it TOO MUCH to expect the liberals to do the same ?

  That woman (Sheehan) down at Crawford is doing all other troops a disservice.
  While I sympathize with her loss, I disagree with her tactics...as the rest of her family does..
  Recently the terrorists in Iraq have taken to attacking other Iraqis, believing that they would have no success in shaking American resolve.
   The more Americans they see that are turning against their own leadership...the more encouraged they will feel to attack American targets.
   Thereby, these rioters and demonstrators will be CAUSING MORE AMERICAN TROOPS TO DIE...blood will be on Their hands...(as if they care !)
    This same crowd killed troops in Vietnam and will do so in Iraq if they can.
  Someday this Sheehan woman may regain her sanity and realize that the Michael Moores of this world have USED her and her grief..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline pffft

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« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2005, 06:16:12 AM »
It's the $$$ that is the motivation, and by the time this is over, she will be rich.
Somehow, people are beginning to believe that a monetary replacement is mandatory for the loss of their loved ones.
The Hollywood liberals earn a lot of money by criticizing the current administration, and like Kerry during the Vietnam conflict, are always looking for patsies to help further their careers.

A couple of articles from Oliver North that address some of your other comments.
Dishonoring the Fallen
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050702-110820-7370r.htm

Winning, One Step at a Time
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050521-100536-5726r.htm

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2005, 10:44:52 AM »
I am always amazed at the ability of some to blame those who protest government policy as causing the deaths of US troops, US policy and enemy action caused their deaths.  

Some accuse Hanoi Jane of causing the deaths of soldiers with her trip to North Viet Nam, yet the year she went, 1972, was the lowest year for casualties among US forces since active military involvement in 1966.  Were her actions disgusting? Absolutely.  Did she cross the line from protest to giving aid and comfort?  Absolutely?  Will I ever pay to see any of her movies, videos, or her books? No.  Did she cause greater casualties?  No. Talks to end active US participation were well under way in Paris, at the time.  Remember “peace with honor”?  Did Jane actions end the war?  No, but they certainly did not increase the number of casualties either.

Some accuse Kerry of causing the deaths of soldiers, with the publishing of his book, in 1971, and speeches while running for congress in 1972.  Yet the year his book was published was the second lowest year for casualties, and the year of his congressional run was the lowest among US forces since active military involvement in 1966, thus after his anti-war activity began casualties became lower.  Is kerry a jerk?  Probably.  Did KerryÂ’s action lessen casualties?  No, but they certainly did not increase them either.

The only way they could be the cause of additional US military casualties, is their failure to voice opposition at the beginning of the war.

Is the sight of a grieving mother in Texas a symbol to those who opposed the war in Iraq?  Absolutely, however it does raises questions that deserve answers.

Does the Presidents policy of “staying the course”:

Lessen casualties?

Lead to increasing casualties?
 
Bring us closer to achieving, our now stated objectives?

Blaming her or accusing her of a monetary motive, does not dismiss the validity of the questions raised.

The facts are that as we “stay the course” our casualties are increasing.  There are two ways to stop the increasing casualties, leave and admit that our objectives of freedom and democracy are not worth it, or stay and increase the resources we have deployed, crush the enemy and protect the institutions of freedom and democracy, as they grow in Iraq.

However “staying the course” so far appears to be an exercise is repeatedly doing the same thing over and over again and believing that this time a different result will occur.

The country embarked upon the war in Iraq divided, and support for its’ continued prosecution is waning, the time is quickly approaching where we either change what we are doing and achieve the objects we have laid out, or declare “victory” and “peace with honor”, and make scrape-goats for our collective lack of belief in the ideals of freedom and democracy, and the decisive ineptness of our leadership.

If our recent history is any indicator, the supply of scrape-goats is becoming well stocked, as we speak.

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Offline pffft

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« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2005, 12:19:58 PM »
Probably shoulda signed up when you had the chance fe352v8.

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2005, 01:12:16 PM »
I did.

US Army 1969-1972

As a grunt in Viet Nam from February 1970 to February 1971

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Offline big medicine

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« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2005, 02:17:26 PM »
Quote
The facts are that as we “stay the course” our casualties are increasing. There are two ways to stop the increasing casualties, leave and admit that our objectives of freedom and democracy are not worth it, or stay and increase the resources we have deployed, crush the enemy and protect the institutions of freedom and democracy, as they grow in Iraq.

Once again I find myself in agreement. Lets either **** or get off the pot. A static force is nothing more than a target. Look at the major fighting part of the war. We were on the move kicking a$$ and taking names. Life takers and heart breakers and had few KIAs. Once we became static the KIAs started to mount.

Offline pffft

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« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2005, 02:53:30 PM »
Ohh... You are one of those...
Well, life goes on fe352v8.
It's unfortunate that it brought your life to a standstill, but most of us serving there picked up where we left off, and continued life best we could.
Possibly the influences from the very radical liberals of the time affected you more than you realize.
Hope you get over it.

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2005, 04:50:46 PM »
Pffft,

I have no idea what you are talking about

Your posts in this thread have degenerated to, demeaning a mother who has lost a son in war; by asserting her protest is an attempt by her to become rich, and then instead of discussing the views I put forth, you attempt to discredit me on a personal level by implying that I have had no direct experience with war.

When I politely informed you of your misassumption, you again did not discuss the view I put forth but instead asserted that my life is at a stand still and that I am “one of those”.

You have yet to offer a reasoned response against a position, but instead engage in personal slurs, and demeaning assertions.

I have no idea whom “one of those are”, however is obvious that you have differentiated us, and for that I am thankful, I can think few things I would find to be more repugnant, than for someone to think us similar, thank you.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline pffft

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« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2005, 12:24:29 PM »
This country does have some members of the military who shamelessly try to influence others by sharing opinions about their dissent, all the while earning an income while also drawing retirement at taxpayers expense.

I recall a recent article about some Officer running around parking lots spray-painting politically motivated bumper-stickers. Now really, shouldn't these people be weeded out of our military? Their abilities are, shall we say, less than in-demand, at least for officers anyway.
Karen fits into the same category as entertainers who feel they must speak out on politics even when all everyone wanted was to hear them sing. Likely can't carry a tune, but sure wants to sing like a Canary.

Michael Rubin of National Review on Karen Kwiatkowski
http://nationalreview.com/rubin/rubin200405180836.asp

U.S. Senator John Kyl's remarks on Karen Kwiatkowski
This is in PDF format.
http://rpc.senate.gov/_files/iraq%20pentagon%20csis%20speech.pdf

Offline fe352v8

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losing " Club Gitmo "...
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2005, 08:27:18 AM »
If you Google, Defense Guidance Policy, you will find the administrationÂ’s actions spelled out in a draft leaked to the press in 1992.  It was originally published in the NY times on 3/8/92.  Here are some excerpts, no mystery what is going on.

  DEFENSE STRATEGY OBJECTIVES

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include Western Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union, and Southwest Asia.

There are three additional aspects to this objective: First, the U.S. must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests. Second, in the non-defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order. Finally, we must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role. An effective reconstitution capability is important here, since it implies that a potential rival could not hope to quickly or easily gain a predominant military position in the world.

The second objective is to address sources of regional conflict and instability in such a way as to promote increasing respect for international law, limit international violence, and encourage the spread of democratic forms of government and open economic systems. These objectives are especially important in deterring conflicts or threats in regions of security importance to the United States because of their proximity (such as Latin America), or where we have treaty obligations or security commitments to other nations. While the U.S. cannot become the world's "policeman," by assuming responsibility for righting every wrong, we will retain the pre-eminent responsibility for addressing selectively those wrongs which threaten not only our interests, but those of our allies or friends, or which could seriously unsettle international relations. Various types of U.S. interests may be involved in such instances: access to vital raw materials, primarily Persian Gulf oil; proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, threats to U.S. citizens from terrorism or regional or local conflict, and threats to U.S. society from narcotics trafficking.

It is improbable that a global conventional challenge to U.S. and Western security will re-emerge from the Eurasian heartland for many years to come. Even in the highly unlikely event that some future leadership in the former Soviet Union adopted strategic aims of recovering the lost empire or otherwise threatened global interests, the loss of Warsaw Pact allies and the subsequent and continuing dissolution of military capability would make any hope of success require several years or more of strategic and doctrinal re-orientation and force regeneration and redeployment, which in turn could only happen after a lengthy political realignment and re-orientation to authoritarian and aggressive political and economic control. Furthermore, any such political upheaval in or among the states of the former U.S.S.R. would be much more likely to issue in internal or localized hostilities, rather than a concerted strategic effort to marshal capabilities for external expansionism -- the ability to project power beyond their borders.

There are other potential nations or coalitions that could, in the further future, develop strategic aims and a defense posture of region-wide or global domination. Our strategy must now refocus on precluding the emergence of any potential future global competitor. But because we no longer face either a global threat or a hostile, non-democratic power dominating a region critical to our interests, we have the opportunity to meet threats at lower levels and lower costs -- as long as we are prepared to reconstitute additional forces should the need to counter a global threat re-emerge. . . .
 
REGIONAL THREATS AND RISK

With the demise of a global military threat to U.S. interests, regional military threats, including possible conflicts arising in and from the territory of the former Soviet Union, will be of primary concern to the U.S. in the future. These threats are likely to arise in regions critical to the security of the U.S. and its allies, including Europe, East Asia, the Middle East and Southwest Asia, and the territory of the former Soviet Union. We also have important interests at stake in Latin America, Oceania, and Sub-Saharan Africa. In both cases, the U.S. will be concerned with preventing the domination of key regions by a hostile power. . . .
 
Former Soviet Union

The former Soviet state achieved global reach and power by consolidating control over the resources in the territory of the former U.S.S.R. The best means of assuring that no hostile power is able to consolidate control over the resources within the former Soviet Union is to support its successor states (especially Russia and Ukraine) in their efforts to become peaceful democracies with market-based economies. A democratic partnership with Russia and the other republics would be the best possible outcome for the United States. At the same time, we must also hedge against the possibility that democracy will fail, with the potential that an authoritarian regime bent on regenerating aggressive military power could emerge in Russia, or that similiar regimes in other successor republics could lead to spreading conflict within the former U.S.S.R. or Eastern Europe.

For the immediate future, key U.S. concerns will be the ability of Russia and the other republics to demilitarize their societies, convert their military industries to civilian production, eliminate or, in the case of Russia, radically reduce their nuclear weapons inventory, maintain firm command and control over nuclear weapons, and prevent leakage of advanced military technology and expertise to other countries.
 
Western Europe

NATO continues to provide the indispensable foundation for a stable security environment in Europe. Therefore, it is of fundamental importance to preserve NATO as the primary instrument of Western defense and security, as well as the channel for U.S. influence and participation in European security affairs. While the United States supports the goal of European integration, we must seek to prevent the emergence of European-only security arrangements which would undermine NATO, particularly the alliance's integrated command structure.
 
East-Central Europe

The end of the Warsaw Pact and the dissolution of the Soviet Union have gone a long way toward increasing stability and reducing the military threat to Europe. The ascendancy of democratic reformers in the Russian republic, should this process continue, is likely to create a more benign polcy toward Eastern Europe. However, the U.S. must keep in mind the long history of conflict between the states of Eastern Europe, as well as the potential for conflict between the states of Eastern Europe and those of the former Soviet Union. . . .

The most promising avenues for anchoring the east-central Europeans into the West and for stabilizing their democratic institutions is their participation in Western political and economic organizations. East-central European membership in the (European Community) at the earliest opportunity, and expanded NATO liaison. . . .

The U.S. could also consider extending to the east-central European states security commitments analogous to those we have extended to Persian Gulf states.

Should there be a re-emergence of a threat from the Soviet Union's successor state, we should plan to defend against such a threat in Eastern Europe, should there be an alliance decision to do so.
 
East Asia and Pacific

. . . Defense of Korea will likely remain one of the most demanding major regional contingencies. . . . Asia is home to the world's greatest concentration of traditional Communist states, with fundamental values, governance, and policies decidedly at variance with our own and those of our friends and allies.

To buttress the vital political and economic relationships we have along the Pacific rim, we must maintain our status as a military power of the first magnitude in the area. This will enable the U.S. to continue to contribute to regional security and stability by acting as a balancing force and prevent emergence of a vacuum or a regional hegemon.
 
Middle East and Southwest Asia

In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region's oil. We also seek to deter further aggression in the region, foster regional stability, protect U.S. nationals and property, and safeguard our access to international air and seaways. As demonstrated by Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, it remains fundamentally important to prevent a hegemon or alignment of powers from dominating the region. This pertains especially to the Arabian peninsula. Therefore, we must continue to play a strong role through enhanced deterrence and improved cooperative security.

We will seek to prevent the further development of a nuclear arms race on the Indian subcontinent. In this regard, we should work to have both countries, India and Pakistan, adhere to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to place their nuclear energy facilities under International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards. We should discourage Indian hegemonic aspirations over the other states in South Asia and on the Indian Ocean. With regard to Pakistan, a constructive U.S.-Pakistani military relationship will be an important element in our strategy to promote stable security conditions in Southwest Asia and Central Asia. We should therefore endeavor to rebuild our military relationship given acceptable resolution of our nuclear concerns.
 
Latin America

Cuba's growing domestic crisis holds out the prospect for positive change, but over the near term, Cuba's tenuous internal situation is likely to generate new challenges to U.S. policy. Consequently, our programs must provide capabilities to meet a variety of Cuban contingencies which could include an attempted repetition of the Mariel boatlift, a military provocation against the U.S. or an American ally, or political instability and internal conflict in Cuba.

They been planning for a long time

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon