round balls in a 1:28 fast twist lrh green mountain barrel

[kjg]

what a surprise to find a accurate load and one who shoots, this was a total surprise , normally it  is not supposed to happen right? I just was playing with power belts and realized that I only had half a dozen left , so I reached for my casted 535 lee's casted for my tulle just to see I had a one hole x ring off hand at 50 yards and said naw its just a flook loaded 5 more 90 grains rs pyro crap and capped it off with a cci musket cap, set the trigger and blam six round ragged one holer , now not only am I perplexed, shook it off and put it on the bench with 100 grains pyro crap
patched ball set it off and had a sweat 1 1/2" group , what gives  well if its doing that who needs power belts anyway guess I'll be saving a bit o money  :lol:  :lol: , kjg

[jh45gun]

Sounds good yea rule of thumb is conicals for fast twist and roundballs for slow twist but that does not mean that they cannot change roles. Some ball shooters will shoot conicals ok and some will not. Same with some fast twist guns some will shoot balls better than others and some will if you have a lower powder charge. it sounds like yours does good with a bigger charge so that is cool as you should be able to shoot what ever you want in that gun as far as projectiles go.  I have 54 Cal fast twist Green Mountain barrel on my underhammer will have to give a few balls a try to see how it does.  Jim

[Longcruise]

Not the first time I've heard this from someone who actually tried a prb in a fast twist gun.

A lot of what we accept as fact just aint so!  And, these "facts" get repeated enough over the years (especially with the advent of the internet), that they become "common knowledge" or "conventional wisdom"  

Unfortunately, the first hand experiences of someone like yourself just won't get repeated enough to become fact.  Sooo.... fiction becomes fact and fact is regarded as fiction. :-D

Here's an example of how it works

How "Conventional Wisdom" comes to be
 
Start with a cage containing five monkeys.  Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it.
 
Before long, one of the monkeys will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.  As soon as he touches the stairs, all of the monkeys are sprayed with cold water.
 
After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result... all the monkeys are sprayed with cold water.
 
Pretty soon, none of the monkeys will try to climb the stairs.
 
Now, put away the cold water.  Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one.  The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs.  To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him.
 
After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.
 
Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one.  The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked.  The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm!
 
Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.
 
Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.  Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.
 
After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.  Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.
 
Why not?  Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been done around here.
 
And that, my friends, is  the source of "conventional wisdom".

[jh45gun]

Wheeeew  

[roundball]

what a surprise to find a accurate load and one who shoots, this was a total surprise , normally it  is not supposed to happen right? I just was playing with power belts and realized that I only had half a dozen left , so I reached for my casted 535 lee's casted for my tulle just to see I had a one hole x ring off hand at 50 yards and said naw its just a flook loaded 5 more 90 grains rs pyro crap and capped it off with a cci musket cap, set the trigger and blam six round ragged one holer , now not only am I perplexed, shook it off and put it on the bench with 100 grains pyro crap
patched ball set it off and had a sweat 1 1/2" group , what gives  well if its doing that who needs power belts anyway guess I'll be saving a bit o money  :lol:  :lol: , kjg

Fantastic...and another good shooter finds that "old wives tales" are just that!
Another good one is:
"Oh, full power round ball loads won't be accurate in 1:48" twist barrels cause they'll skip the rifling"...blah, blah, blah...well, like you just did, I've personally proven that to be BS in my .45/.50/.54cal TC 1:48" barrels...max loads at 100yds...1+7/8"-2+3/8" groups from the bench...

Good for you!  Spread the word...


PS: Great story about the monkeys!

[sharps4590]

Good shooting and good for you!  Once again it is proven that every rifle is an entity unto itself and that generalities are just that.

Vic

[lostid]

had a one hole x ring off hand at 50 yards and said naw its just fluk,
 rs pyro crap and capped it off with a cci musket cap,
 , bench with 100 grains pyro crap
, who needs power belts anyway guess I'll be saving a bit o money  :lol:  :lol: , kjg

Good for you!!

 You should share this info ith the in-line bp shooters group  also!  
 It's always great to here of, and have proven new inovations  to BP shooting  Thank's for sharing you slye monkey you

[dodd3]

i have a.54 pedersoli  tryon that shoots minie's just as well as a ball.so when i go out after pigs i youse the minie's more thump.
bernie  :grin:

[Larry Gibson]

kjg

You might want to retest those PRBs again, only at 100 yards this time. I have a TC BLK MTN Magnum .50 cal with 1-28" twist with a rear peep sight and a blade front sight. I tried PRBs at 50 yards and had a dandy 5 shot 1 1/2" group, also they were running right at 1800+ fps. (I'm half ways around the world in Iraq and don't have my loading notes here so I can't give exact figures) Anyways I thought the same as you, some idiots don't know anything about PRBs in a fast twist barrel. I then put the target at 100 yards and fired 5 shots. The group was 16"! I thought I'd messed up so I shot another 5 shots and it was 18"!! Just to make sure the fumes weren't making me high I moved the target back to 50 yards. The 5 shots there went back into 1 1/2". Somewhere between 50 and 100 yards the PRBs were really losing it.  

I put the target back at 100 yards and started dropping the powder charge. Right at 1500 fps 5 shot groups with the PRBs settled into 3".  that' ok but it certainly is not what a slow twist barrel will do with PRBs.

FWIW; right after I got the BLK MTN Mag Oregon (where I hunt) outlawed saboted bullets including the power belts and pelletised powder along with the glow sights.  Thus I had to set out on a course to discover what "old" worked well in the "new". I cast a 375g Maxi-Ball out of an original TC mold with a 1-16 alloy. I push it to 1570 fps with 777 (1450 fps with GOEX Cartridge BP) and 3 MOA accuracy for 5 shots without cleaning. It is very deadly on deer and elk. I also was experimenting with both weights of .50 cal REALs and was getting decent results, it will have to wait until I get back home to finish testing.  

Larry Gibson

[jh45gun]

Again I think it would depend on the rifle they sure are different in their likes and dislikes. Seems like every one is different.

[teech]

I have an original perc rifle with a 1 in 35 twist.It has 7 lands a deep groove rifling.The barrel is 1 1/16" octagonal. I figure it was made to shoot slugs given the twist etc.
It will shoot prb very accurately with 25 grs fff and a 0.025 patch. I wouldn't believe if I didn't see it for myself.
I'm real happy to see a topic like this one, cause nobody else wants to believe a fast twist can shoot prb.

[roundball]

I have an original perc rifle with a 1 in 35 twist.It has 7 lands a deep groove rifling.The barrel is 1 1/16" octagonal. I figure it was made to shoot slugs given the twist etc.
It will shoot prb very accurately with 25 grs fff and a 0.025 patch. I wouldn't believe if I didn't see it for myself.
I'm real happy to see a topic like this one, cause nobody else wants to believe a fat twist can shoot prb.

I agree...In my 60 years I can't think of another hobby, sport, etc, that has so many 'old wives tales' associated with it.

And worse, that so many people blindly believe and repeat  them without ever having personally done indepth, detailed, hands on range testing of them.

And finally, worse than that, these same people read a statement on a forum somewhere, made by a complete stranger, then they go repeat that claim on other boards as gospel having no idea what they're talking about.

We humans are funny, eh :grin:

[lostid]

I agree...In my 60 years I can't think of another hobby, sport, etc, that has so many 'old wives tales' associated with it.:[/quote]

 Ya need to read your own quote roundball, and read again your postings,,,,he said an .025 patch,,,,,that just don't fit with your "gospel"  does it.,,,,,
,,,, All the best guns are T/C And all T/C shoot best using round ball an ox-yoke overpowder wad, with 90 grns of 3f goex and a .015 wonder-lube patch,,,,,,,,(yadda-yadda<)

yup,,roundball say's,,,,,,,
 roundball shoot's 40 shot's every weekend,,,,he never cleans between shot's and alway's shoot's better than everyone,,roundball,,he shoot's the  best of us all.
 Even though roundball shoot's only T/C 's,,,,,he know's about all twist's,,,and yup,,just like he say's all twist's shoot roundball really well.

 I like this thread ,,you guy's just go a head an teach new shooters about how well fast twist's shoot prb. I like winning! :-D

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

roundballs are the easiest to stabilize.  Therefore they will likely perform out of any barrel - it's just a matter of finding the proper charge.

[Longcruise]

Ya need to read your own quote roundball, and read again your postings,,,,he said an .025 patch,,,,,that just don't fit with your "gospel" does it.,,,,,
,,,, All the best guns are T/C And all T/C shoot best using round ball an ox-yoke overpowder wad, with 90 grns of 3f goex and a .015 wonder-lube patch,,,,,,,,(yadda-yadda<)

yup,,roundball say's,,,,,,,
roundball shoot's 40 shot's every weekend,,,,he never cleans between shot's and alway's shoot's better than everyone,,roundball,,he shoot's the best of us all.
Even though roundball shoot's only T/C 's,,,,,he know's about all twist's,,,and yup,,just like he say's all twist's shoot roundball really well.

Can't say as I recall all of that as being directly attributable to roundball.  Course, we know he likes TC's and that he likes to shoot round balls. :grin:

I for one can confirm that the TC 1:48 "compromise" twist will shoot a roundball with excellent accuracy.  Several years ago I gave a .54 Hawken to one of the kids who nicely slew an elk with it loaded with a round ball and 80 grs of ff.  Oddly, I had in the past used the same rifle and the same load to place rather well in several state-wide matches.

I recall a shooting report in Muzzle Blasts magazine about ten years ago wherein the author was evaluating a rem 700 ml rifle.  Shot sabots and slugs real well.  Author decided to try a few round balls too.  Egads :shock:   The prb shot with fine accuracy too.

I agree with roundball on the subject of the old wives tales. So many oft repeated statements become like religious dogma

[Longcruise]

Maybe kjg will be kind enough to go back to the range and report his 100 yard results too!!  Maybe they will suck, but OTOH, who knows what might be learned? :?

[kjg]

Hey guys I am back on line and I kept looking at the hawkin for some time and I guess I'm going to break it out and do a little onehundred yard shooting I put my hawkin up, because I've been shooting me early Viginia I built and have just completed it also is a .54, been shooting that slow twist 1-70 off hand at 100 and it works great only thing is i'm out of 2fg goex and 3fg just isn't 2fg accuracy this virginia has a mind all its own.kjg