What alloy

[JCP]

I shooting Black with 457125 & 457132 lyman's in my 45-70 . I've tried 40-1 and 30-1 and getting the leading that blacks the cleaning patch , and it takes a while to get all of it out. The harder the alloy the less leading I seem to get. I'm using SPG and some of my own lube and the leading is about the same with either one.

What alloy do you BP shooters use?

[powderburner]

If you have leading and are using spg or other good lube you should try a different size bullet . and if your lead tin alloy is good you shouldn't have a problem .you dont say what your load is but if you do not bump up the bullet on ignition  you will get gas cutting

 are your cases dirty on the outside?

I use goex and use 70 to 75 gns of 1F in a 45-70 with the postel bullet with good results in win cases ... with 2F I use 68 to 70 with good results.

this requires compression of the powder which cannot be accomplished with the bullet  you must use a compression plug and compress around .35 to .5 in depending on youe seating requirements.....


a good site to go to is  www.longrangebpcr.com  this has a lot of good info on loading...... another site is www.b.p.c.r.net and under techincal articles on the left there are some good articles on bp loadong

  hopes this helps................... Dean

[JCP]

Thanks Powderburner,

We are using Goax 2f, 70 grs. bullet slightly into the rifling, .060 walters wad, approximatly .100 compression. WW cases , cleaned after each use.
 

If it's not bumping up, what could I do to make it do so?

Our bullets are .459, and groove dia. is .460 .
Any info would be appreciated.

[Dusty Miller]

Just one word: gas checks!

[JCP]

Thanks Dusty, but were working to shoot in competition and there not allowed. For some reason were not bumping up and I don't know why.

[powderburner]

some things I'd try
 

1]anneal the case necks ,so as to get a good seal  
 2]add powder until you have at least .350 compression
3] shoot the bullets unsized
droptube the 70 gns 24 in
compress to .600 put a wax paper wad over it and seat the bullet so the case mouth comes to the bottom of the front band.

this advise is from the RDNCK who is the Goex powder rep

how are you getting .100 compression with a postel and a .60 wad and 70 gn powder? .
what are you shooting it in ?
does it have a long throat?

[JCP]

Thanks again Powderburner.

Accuatly the front band was about .050 into the rifling. were going to pull that back until it just touches the rifling. I'll try the .350 compression tomorrow and will let you know how it does. I'll load it exactly as you said, that will give me a good place to start.
It has standard throat.
I suppose you mean .600 down from case neck.

[JCP]

Powderburner, I just loaded 75 grs. 2f compressed .350 with .060 walters wad , loaded with postell the oal is 2.977. Best I can tell the bullet is .018 off the rifling.

 You may have miss read my post , the wad is .060 not .60. That would require some freebore. :grin:


I'll spend what ever time it takes today getting the lead out of the barrel and shoot tomorrow and i'll get back with the results.
Do you really just use a wax paper wad over powder and nothing else?

Thanks very much
Jack

[powderburner]

060 wad correct
 
yes some of my loads with different bullets shoot better with no wad ,the wax paper stoping lube migration

 the limited information you have provided makes it sound as if you are not building up pressure which allows the gas to cut the base instead of bumping up the bullet and sealing it

 the 75 gn load I use is 1F not 2F
                   
 I use the 68 -to 70 load with 2F but do compress a whole lot more than your stated .100

and yes .600 from the case mouth.

  if these dont stop the leading you either have not got the rifle clean all the way to bare metal or ,get this it is too clean .or you have a rough bore .

   when you clean it and before you shoot take some SPG and smear it on a patch and wipe the bore three or four times and then smear the bullet noses with lube for six or so. this will season the bore .

 To clean  wipe with a wet patch or two and then a dry one .it should be clean then use an oily patch

are you using a blow tube? and are you using it effectively? you may be shooting over hard fouling which will cause leading as well

[JCP]

Yes , I'm using a blow tube , 3 long slow puffs. I was just going to use 70 grs. but that wasn't going to give much compression without a lot of distance between the bullet and rifling. I may load up a few with 75 grs 1f and see what happens.
I been shooting all my life , but new to BP, ain't it great.

Could you give spec. on your 70 gr. 2ffg load with postell. If you compress that .350, the bullet will be a long way off the rifling and I've always heard that it is better if it is just touching.
I've read a lot of RDNCK's posts on the net, man , would I like to live next door to him for about a year, I'd be a lot better shooter.




Thank all of you for your advise. You've been a great help.

Jack

[powderburner]

My postel is from NEI and is a custom job but the lyman one I had fit the throat of my shiloh with the first band setting on the case neck , most of my bullets require .600 + to seat into the throat  as they are all chambered quite tight ............ Dean

 Rem cases
68-70 gns powder 2F
wax wad compress til all grease is in the case
on the govt bullet I seat it to crimp over the front band
win .cases Add 2.5 gns
cases were  sized and opened up with an expanderand the bullet seated with about 1-2 thousands neck tension .
now I use the same load but use fireformed cases and a taper crimp die.
 I use fed gold medal match 210 std rifle primers  or CCi BR2s
anneal the neck about 1/2 inch down

cases fall out of the chamber and look like they havent been fired still shiny on the outside.

75 gns of 2& works but is not as clean a burn as 70 and you might go up to 6 or 8 breaths depending on how dry it is where you are . in Mt. this spring I used @ long slow breaths and this fall down here I am using 6 to keep the groups round .  

touching the rifleing with the bullet is kinda a variable some rifles like the bullet touching and some need to jump to it to work ,I think it depends on the straightness of the chamber and throat and the size of your chamber. .........................Dean

[JCP]

Thanks Dean, You've been very helpful. Thanks for getting me on the right track.

I found RDNCK's post on the Shiloah forum where he told exactly how he loaded his 45/70 with the postell with all the spec's.

Thanks again
Jack

[powderburner]

You are most welcone................... Dean

[JCP]

Powderburner, I shot a 7 shot group this evening (running out of bullets).
The group measured 3/4" high 2" wide, throw away one and it's 1 1/4" wide center to center @100yds. The only thing is I have to compress powder .516 down from top of case to get bullet to touch rifling and it took 80 grs of 2f goax to reach that compression. The OAL is 3.013. velocity on first shot was 1290 fps, after the first 2 it came on down in the 1250's with spread of only 17 fps for the last 5, not bad starting out. A little rough on the shoulder though. No more leading, bullet must have pumbed up.
Tonight I going to order 100 Rem cases which should work better.

[powderburner]

Aint it fun when things start to work?

 the remington cases I have gotten over thr years have always been very consistant.

 I always say..MORE POWDER..... if the earth dont vibrate when the gun goes off you need MORE POWDER........... enjoy...............Dean