Author Topic: Cross bolt safety....how do you carry? (Read 2587 times)

hogship · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2005, 12:25:24 PM »

RGS.....

Seems like a good idea to me. It ought ot work well.....unless I'm overlooking something.

I think the one thing you're overlooking is that, to my knowledge, no end user actually wanted the cross bolt safety in the first place.....only Marlin, who is probably persuaded by legal necessity. The cross bolt safety is awkward and not very user friendly. I believe Winchester went to a tang safety.....which is an improvement.

Hmmm, interesting.

hog

Paul Barnard · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2005, 02:08:42 PM »

.....Although your bolt rifle is in the full cocked position before taking the safety off, most hunters with a lever rifle don't carry their rifle in the full cocked position.....This being so, there is now TWO things to do before your lever rifle can be brought into action.

Why would you not carry your lever gun with the hammer cocked and the safety on? Or you could just leave the safety off all the time and carry the gun as if the safety were not there.

RGS · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2005, 07:25:53 PM »

mjgear's near death experience got me to thinking about the transfer bar concept. One AD because of a bumped or dropped rifle is one too many. To be fair with Marlin we don't know if that particular rifle was altered or worked on after it was sold.

Bill Ruger solved this problem 30 or so years ago. (I think he was the first to use a transfer bar) We do not have to go out and re-invent the wheel here.

Neither Winchester or Marlin has seen fit to use this method of blocking the fireing pin.

For Pete's sake I have a NEF Huntsman now made by Marlin and guess what boys.......it has a transfer bar over the fireing pin and no safety what so ever!! :eek: Hide the women and children....

There is also no half cock notch. But could you live without the half cock notch and just have the transfer bar like the Handy Rifle? No cross bolt safety, no half cock just the transfer bar. It is either cocked and ready to fire or it is "safe" with the hammer all the way down.

The problem I do still see is the possibility of tripping the trigger while loading or unloading through the action. RATS (hat thrown on floor and kicked across the room)

I thought I had the whole thing solved. Now what?

Rick

BlueSky · « **Reply #33 on:** August 12, 2005, 04:35:31 PM »

I think the cross bolt safety is a non-issue. In the off position it's as if it wasn't even there, the rifle functions just like it always did pre-safety, right? Carry with one in, half cock, no problem. The only issue I see is if it gets pushed on by accident, but that seems unlikely, at least on my 336. Personally, I like the CBS, for loading and unloading and when travelling (in the field, not a vehicle!), for an extra little peace of mind. Some people may not like the change in appearance, but that's another subject. Oh, and full cock with the safety on sounds dangerous to me. If indeed it can get knocked on by accident, it can also get knocked off and there you are unknowingly ready to fire, yikes. Half cock all the way.

RGS · « **Reply #34 on:** August 13, 2005, 01:38:11 PM »

Quote from: mjgear

I have never had a click rather than a bang because of the safety. I have had a 444 265gn miss my head by 12" when a friend fell whilst relying on the half cock only. Incidents like that do tend to focus you on safety issues! The man concerned is very safety conscious, but when you land hard enough to break an arm, 3 ribs and a color bone you WILL loose control of the rifle.Michael G

BlueSky,

The above is why the half cock position is an issue. With a transfer bar the accidental discharge could not have happend.

Rick

BlueSky · « **Reply #35 on:** August 14, 2005, 02:46:21 AM »

RGS or mjgear: Would you please post details on how the AD occurred? How did the hammer go to full cock and then fire during the fall? It is a disturbing story and I would like to know more.

I own four NEF's w/ the transfer bar system and imo it is one of the safest around, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the AD described by mjgear couldn't have occurred had it been present. Without trying to be argumentitive, I could think of ways the transfer bar system might fail in mjgears scenario, though I believe it would be unlikely.

An interesting question is, would the AD have occurred with the CBS on?

hogship · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2005, 03:56:48 PM »

Quote from: mjgear

I have had a 444 265gn miss my head by 12" when a friend fell whilst relying on the half cock only.

I've been thinking about this, manipulating my 1895GS's trigger and hammer, and considering BlueSky's question in his post above this one. It's a fair question.....and I doubt that he and I are the only ones who look forward to the answer.

Off hand, it looks to me like one of two things must have happened. Either the hammer was struck so hard that the half cock sear engagement was sheared off......or......somehow the hammer moved partially toward the full cock position and the trigger pulled.

How likely is this to happen? I'm asking myself this very question.

hog

hogship · « **Reply #37 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:47:39 PM »

Doesn't look like an answer is forthcoming BlueSky.......

Looks to me like there is more to the story than what we've been told here. (or less!)

Think about it.....it's hard to imagine a pre-safety lever rifle in the half cock postition having an AD. You can hammer and bang on it all you want, and it just ain't gonna happen......and I've never heard of it happening either. Like I said in the above post, looks to me like the only two possibilities are for the half cock sear to be sheared off completely from a sharp blow, or the hammer moved partially, or fully to the rear coupled with the trigger being pulled.

I have heard of AD's occuring when manually lowering the hammer from full cock to half cock and the hammer slipping off the thumb. This is why the invent of the cross bolt safety came about in the first place.....with the added inspiration lawyers and lawsuits can have!

I'm still waiting for an answer to this.....and I'll eat crow if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like there could be a little BS in this story.

hog

BlueSky · « **Reply #38 on:** August 19, 2005, 09:16:59 AM »

I know what you mean hogship, it does seem like a straight forward question doesn't it? Really put the buzzkill on this thread though.

hogship · « **Reply #39 on:** August 19, 2005, 12:38:24 PM »

Sorta looks that way BlueSky.....

There is one more possibility that would explain the whole AD thing with mjgear's story.....and that would be that his friend actually had his rifle in the full cock position and was "mistaken" about it being on half cock.

hog

BlueSky · « **Reply #40 on:** August 19, 2005, 02:50:14 PM »

And his finger on the trigger. . .

daddywpb · « **Reply #41 on:** August 21, 2005, 02:13:50 AM »

I carry my 1894G with a round chambered, the hammer at half cock, and my finger AWAY from the trigger, like I've been doing for 25 years. If you observe the safety rules that we should all observe when carrying a loaded rifle in the woods, that crossbolt safety is useless on a lever action. Personally, if I put that safety on, I can't for the life of me remember to take it off before I take a shot, probably because IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. I'm sure there's some old time lever gun users out there who will agree with me. Again, if we observe the safe gun handling techniques that we should follow every time we pick up a firearm, the safety is pointless. Never rely on any mechanical safety to make up for careless handling. Watch your muzzle!!!

AkRvrrat · « **Reply #42 on:** August 21, 2005, 06:06:09 AM »

carry mine anymore - fixed. Meaning I as well took the stock off and tightened the allen screw up against the crossbolt-no more problem. Came across the need to shoot one day and I spaced the d### cross bolt and the ears of the moose when up and took off. For years prior to this design I never needed a altenatative safety-strange.

John C-S · « **Reply #43 on:** September 05, 2005, 06:32:09 AM »

As soon as out of the truck and loaded. One nice thing though about the cross-bolt: you can lever out your live rounds with that cross-bolt safety on and not worry about the hammer getting dis-engaged at full cock and striking the firing pin.