Help with this Omega

[Two Bears]

Today in my Omega I tried American Pioneer pellets ( 2 ) with Hornady XTP 300gr bullets and I was able to reload 3 times after shooting without cleaning the gun. ( Very excited ) but the task of loading although was easier than that all of the other powders that I have tried it is still VERY tight going down the barrel when loading... I don't want to blow a nut loading but if I continue shooting this Omega it might happen. :grin:
Accuracy has been unreal with the Omega -  3 shots half way inside each other, a half inch group with iron sights...but only after I clean the gun before each shot.  
The gun is just too hard to load so.....
I put the Omega away and tried my new Encore 209x50 starting with 777 100 gr pellets and it shot good and I was able to reload after the first shot with ease then after my 4th shot I had to disassemble it and clean it to keep shooting.
Then I tried 100 gr of Pyrodex pellets and it shot good too but was not able to get the great accuracy that I get with the Omega, I was swabbing between each shot when using the pyrodex powder.
 The encore loads so EASY that it makes me wonder what is wrong with the Omega because it is too tight  to load.
My group size with the Encore is at a tennis ball size group which SUCKS but is my pick right now for my bear hunt this weekend.

Can anybody give any insight as to what to do as far as how to make the Omega load better??
 I have tried the BM3, Pyrodex, 777, American Pioneer as well as the new Remington mal 209 primer which did nothing for the crud ring problem and yet the gun is a bastard to load...but shoots like million bucks.

Would the T/C sabots which are thicker help with the accuracy with the Encore rifle instead of the Harvestor sabot?

Has anybody tried Ranier .451 dia jacketed 300 gr hollow point bullets yet in the Omega or Encore, if so what kind of sabot did you use?
Powder?
Primer/
Is loading easier?
Group size?


I need help with this pair of T/C muzzleloaders so if you have anything that you have tried and worked for you  please post so the people that are blessed / cursed with the super tight T/C Omegas can figure out a better way...

Two Bears

[RCL]

I had to try different sabots to be able to get the load down the barrel of my Omega (new last year). I started out with a Hornady black sabot that takes a .45 caliber bullet, in this case XTP Mag. I had to pull HARD with both hands to get the sabot down the bore. There was no loading a second shot. I switched to a Hornady green sabot that takes a .44 caliber bullet (300 grain XTP for a .44 Mag) and loading became normal again. I can also load 3-4 shots without cleaning.
I suspect that the thicker plastic for the .44 cal sabot was able to give more, but that's just a thought on my part.
Both shot well, using the same load of 100 grains of Pyrodex Select.

[Wolfhound]

Today in my Omega I tried American Pioneer pellets ( 2 ) with Hornady XTP 300gr bullets and I was able to reload 3 times after shooting without cleaning the gun. ( Very excited ) but the task of loading although was easier than that all of the other powders that I have tried it is still VERY tight going down the barrel when loading... I don't want to blow a nut loading but if I continue shooting this Omega it might happen. :grin:
Accuracy has been unreal with the Omega -  3 shots half way inside each other, a half inch group with iron sights...but only after I clean the gun before each shot.  
The gun is just too hard to load so.....
I put the Omega away and tried my new Encore 209x50 starting with 777 100 gr pellets and it shot good and I was able to reload after the first shot with ease then after my 4th shot I had to disassemble it and clean it to keep shooting.
Then I tried 100 gr of Pyrodex pellets and it shot good too but was not able to get the great accuracy that I get with the Omega, I was swabbing between each shot when using the pyrodex powder.
 The encore loads so EASY that it makes me wonder what is wrong with the Omega because it is too tight  to load.
My group size with the Encore is at a tennis ball size group which stinks but is my pick right now for my bear hunt this weekend.

Can anybody give any insight as to what to do as far as how to make the Omega load better??
 I have tried the BM3, Pyrodex, 777, American Pioneer as well as the new Remington mal 209 primer which did nothing for the crud ring problem and yet the gun is a bastard to load...but shoots like million bucks.

Would the T/C sabots which are thicker help with the accuracy with the Encore rifle instead of the Harvestor sabot?

Has anybody tried Ranier .451 dia jacketed 300 gr hollow point bullets yet in the Omega or Encore, if so what kind of sabot did you use?
Powder?
Primer/
Is loading easier?
Group size?


I need help with this pair of T/C muzzleloaders so if you have anything that you have tried and worked for you  please post so the people that are blessed / cursed with the super tight T/C Omegas can figure out a better way...

Two Bears

I also own an Omega. What loads well for me are the 245 gr Barnes Spitfires and the Shockwave/SST bullet in a MMP HPH24 sabot. I haven't shot the SST/MMP sabot combo yet but the Shockwaves with the original sabots T/C provided with grouped 1/2" for me (see my avatar). They changed sabots and my groups went to hell. I'm going to try this combo to see if it groups the same. Note: I always dry load a single bullet/sabot to make sure it loads right (snug but not too tight) before I ever take that bullet/sabot combo to the range. I also swab every shot so I am able to keep shooting as long as I like.

[Two Bears]

DRY LOAD: You know I have noticed that after I have taken the gun apart,cleaned and re assembled it then when reloading it with the DRY LOAD sabot that was in the bore once that they go in very easy....I might try to dry load 10-15 or so and then go and shoot them to see what happens.

I will also try the Green sabot with the .44 XTP  good idea.

Anyother ideas???


Ok, how about the other issue that I have with the Encore that they load VERY EASY and the groups that I get are about a tennis ball size.
Should I try some other sabots to see if the thicker ones will shoot better?


Two Bears

[Keith Lewis]

I have a stainless Omega which is a bit#h to load also. I have tried almost all the available bullet sabot combinations with the result that the first loads very difficult on a completely clean and dry barrel. A second load is usually not possible with anything without a spit patch between. I did manage to shoot four shots without a swab using .451 Ranier solid nose 300gr. Bullets and Harvester short sabots with Black Mag'3 powder and Winchester standard 209 primers. I switched to the .25ACP conversion and didn't get a lot of help from that as far as crud ring. It is about 60% better but still does not allow multiple shots without a swab. There is a new sabot from Harvester which has ribs that looks like a possible solution to the Omega problem. For hunting I load a 300gr. SST but switch to Harvester short sabot for the first shot. If I need a quick second shot I carry a 295gr. Powerbelt which I can load without a swab as long as I am shooting Black Mag'3. I might be able to do the same with American Pioneer but have not tried that yet or Pinnacle which is also too new to me to try. It is too hot in Arizona at this time for much more shooting until it cools down a little. I didn't get drawn to hunt this year so I am not in a hurry. Now as far as the Encore I don't have one but there seems to be some concerns that accuracy may be related to the barrel pin not being a good tight fit as well as the orientation of the pin in the action when assembled. I assume that all sights are tight and not capable of moving shot to shot. I know with telescope sights the mounts must be very solid (steel not aluminum) and tight or things move. By the way the Ranier .451 solids shot terrific with a 7/8 inch center to center group on the first three shots at 100 yards with BM3. Not sure I can do that all the time but it happened. I have a shotgun scope on my Omega.

[Two Bears]

I have heard that about the barrel pins but mine seems to be pretty tight as I have to use a tool to rap the pin out.
I still think that a thicker sabot will ( I hope ) help with the accuracy, when I get to the range again, Which will have to be Friday am ( last chance ) then we leave for the hunt Friday night I will try them out.

I will try out the new sabot with the rib on them to see if it helps.

I think that the Ranier .451 bullet will help also but I need to find a source for them, Cabelas and Gander don't have them and won't order them.

[poncaguy]

That's why I'm sticking with Powerbelts..not as accurate as a lot of bullets, but if I need a second shot, they're a lot faster for this ol' man. :-D

[Wolfhound]

DRY LOAD: You know I have noticed that after I have taken the gun apart,cleaned and re assembled it then when reloading it with the DRY LOAD sabot that was in the bore once that they go in very easy....I might try to dry load 10-15 or so and then go and shoot them to see what happens.

I will also try the Green sabot with the .44 XTP  good idea.

Anyother ideas???


Ok, how about the other issue that I have with the Encore that they load VERY EASY and the groups that I get are about a tennis ball size.
Should I try some other sabots to see if the thicker ones will shoot better?


Two Bears

Try MMP HPH 12 50/45 sabots in the Encore. They're for larger diameter 50 cal. bores.

[AndyHass]

I'd try calling MMP and describing your problem.  I seem tom remember being told they have sabots on hand for tight barrels if you ask...but I've never tried.  I shoot my stainless Omega with Shockwaves, and both the blue sabots on the .40s and the balck sabots on the .45s load without particular difficulty.

[Wolfhound]

I'd try calling MMP and describing your problem.  I seem tom remember being told they have sabots on hand for tight barrels if you ask...but I've never tried.  I shoot my stainless Omega with Shockwaves, and both the blue sabots on the .40s and the balck sabots on the .45s load without particular difficulty.

HPH 12's are for the larger 50 cal bores and HPH 24's are for the smaller 50 cal bores.

[AndyHass]

Thanks Wolfhound, I'll have to file that info away.