Author Topic: Advice on which of three 45's (Read 3050 times)

A62Rambler · « **on:** January 05, 2003, 03:56:00 PM »

I prefer 45's for protection. I have narrowed my choices for a carry weapon to: Glock 36, Sig 245, H-K USP compact I carried a glock(19) while working as a police officer and also carried a Sig(226). I like all three. I've shot a Glock 36 and liked it. But, I was never much of a glock fan. I've always preferred Sig's. My thoughts are this. I like the price of the Glock best. I like the Sig for accuracy and utter reliability. I like the cocked and locked option of the H-K. Size wise the H-K is bigger and less concealable. But, I've always wanted an H-K. I'm just stuck making this choice. What's your thoughts and why? Thanks in advance.

KING · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2003, 07:03:39 PM »

A62RAMBLER. You have to purchase the one tht you are enamored eith da most. Its about the only way you are going to be happy. I would tak the Glock,they always work,and will eat anything. Of all the fiearms that I hav tested that make takes the tops. Now,it aint pretty,but it shoots,and it ya like it go fer it. I always pick a gun that causes me to do less to get it to fire. Under stress a TRAINED HANDGUNNER,RIFLEMAN,can only remember three things. One of those things may be to get to cover,call for help,yell to his or her partner. Or it can be to return fire. The more things hanging on a defensive aremthe more can go wrong. I have had officers dump a mag in a live fight,also had em hit the decocker,even had one hit the takedown lever.! I try to keep things as simple as possible bedause of the above informtion. So inturn I like a simple gun,point,pulltrigger,hope bad guy eats concrete. Now I will also tell you that there are some other guns tht I will carry also,and they will fit into the above catagory too. Good luck,and stay safe King

Mc85 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2003, 08:37:15 PM »

I would have to agree with King.....keep it simple!!! I mean under stress you are gonna need something you can opperate without thought.So my advice would be get whatever one fits you best,and whatever one you can opperate the best and quickest.I am new into handguns and so my advice is limited,but simple seems to be the best bet, I mean look at russian guns...they are simple,effective,and well yeah ...,but anywayz I am rambling,and it is late,so right now I am not even sure if I am really typing this :wink: ..welp have a good one,be safe,and good luck picking a gun!

Lates,
Shawn Mc.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2003, 05:18:41 AM »

ok how about this which one fits your hands the best? go with that and then practice! thats all there is too it! they are all good choices!

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2003, 03:15:19 PM »

Of all the suggestions,I would prefer the one which functions the best.You can get accustomed to the look and feel.I would take the Glock hands down.It will function in the mud,sand,water,snow or whatever else ya put it in.If I got to use it I don't care what it looks like as long as it works.Your choices are good but I think the Glock is the only one that will keep on keeping on and this is what we are talking about I think.That extra second you are looking for the unlocker might be too long to wait.My .02 worth,good luck on your choice.I am CAL...

DEPUTY · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:54:54 AM »

humm! i like glocks too though each person hands are different oh and by the way! the sig and the hk will also fucntion underwater as well and in the mud as it has been proven time and time before! but glad to know that just in case iam ever attacked by a rouge bass or pike! oe even some attack worms in the mud! wow i feel safe already! anybody else like to chime in ! oh yes the glock is good and funny how some close friends in the teams use 226 sigs and not glocks! all 3 are good choices get what feels best ! period you cant go wrong with either 3!

DEPUTY · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2003, 07:57:24 AM »

oh yes what is a unlocker? just wondering if you ment de-cocker! and the sig doesnt need anythig ohter than point and shoot as well! my also work is in the snow and the 3 class at gunsight in the sand! wow !

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2003, 12:34:06 PM »

Hello Mr.Deputy,I seem to get the impression that I have offended you in some manner or other from your last post and the one prior.If I did,I would like to take this time to appologize to you for whatever it was I said or did.Offending other people is not my nature or my cause.The gentleman was asking opinions on three pistols and this was all I was trying to give is and opinion nothing more or less.GBs forum has been a great place to carry on foolishness,exchange stories,and give opinions on various matters as well as technical information.Please excuse me if I somehow stepped on your toes as it was quite unintentional.

I am CAL........

DEPUTY · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2003, 03:49:06 PM »

no sir no offense! i just am sick of all the this is better than this is...etc we are all adults here and we will have those ! as trying to help make a decison is tuff over the net! he/she we dont know there level of training or what there physical structure is! thats why the recomendation of fit! all three are very good choices ! and yes the glock is awesome i own several but dept demands i carry a sig and yet i have a hk or 2 in the safe they are all great guns but what are the odds of a common person/cpl holder/ getting into it in a mud pit ! or a underwater shoot out! lol! all is good !

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2003, 05:49:15 PM »

Hello Mr.Deputy, I was not implying a shoot out in a mud pit or in the water.No sir,I was implying being dropped,dipped, or thrown in either. In my opinion I feel the Glock will take more rough treatment and abuse and keep on working. In my opinion I think fit and finish is not as important as function.But now I also know how opinions are.They are sorta like feet,everybody has them and most of them Stink!!! Again,as and adult,I do appologize for what ever offended you. I am through with this discussion and wish you good luck.I am CAL...... :agree:

A62Rambler · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2003, 04:10:16 AM »

I've watched this with some enjoyment. I'd suggest you read my post again. I was asking for opinions on specific models. I'm glad that Cal is a walking spokesperson for glock. However his replies have been prejudicial in nature and show a lack of knowlege about the Sig and H-K. Note in my post that I was a police officer and I carried a Glock 19 and Sig 226 on duty with two different departments. I'd classify that as having a more than working knowlege of both types of weapons. Deputy, I guess you're right. I should base it on feel as all three are more or less equal. I really prefer the H-K for feel(I forgot to mention I'd rented one and shot it for a day). The Sig would be my second choice. The problem is they are both more expensive than the glock and I guess I was hoping somebody on the net would help me justify the expense. Thanks for your replies Deputy. They were to the point and not prejudicial. You kept to the facts and show a knowlege of all three. I'll have to justify the additional cost myself. :wink:
By the way Cal, We had the 5lb New York trigger on our 19's and I watched three of those fail on the range. My partner the armourer replaced them. I had him replace mine with the standard trigger spring. I guess that little episode is part of why I just don't fully trust a glock.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #11 on:** January 09, 2003, 04:57:49 AM »

cal stick around iam not offended, hell i have tuffer skin than that i am a cop in detroit for crying out loud! :shock: non taken bud! rambler! good thoughts! now as far as the sig goes spend the money! how much is your or your loved ones life worth! the compact hk is a nice choice as well with the cocked and locked variaint! then againi go back to sig for easy like the glock ! and size wise the 245, 239 in 40 or 357 sig are good choices as well the 239 is a little powerhouse! we have actualy issued it in 9mm to out detectives! nice trigger out of the box! and it holds i belive 2 more rounds over the 245 but hey for the price of one sig or hk you can by 2 glocks! :lol: good luck let us know

Mikey · « **Reply #12 on:** January 09, 2003, 05:02:12 AM »

Well A62Rambler, here's what I think: I think you should go get all three of 'em. Shoot the dickens out of them and then lose the one(s) you don't like.

You will be the one to decide on how well a particular pistol fits your hands and how well you can control it under recoil, and that is what will determine which one(s) you wish to keep and for what purpose. it is interesting to note that the Glock will fire underwater but the H&K is supposed to be a military preference for close combat/clandestine operations.

Regardless, as your stated preference is for the use of a 45 caliber pistol for personal protection, you need to be able to rely on that 'one' pistol, and that includes how you will be able to present that pistol (draw, point and shoot) if needed.

Me, I would get all three and a case of ball ammo. I would go to the range wearing a sport coat and dress slacks (with a narrow dress belt) and see which one shoots most accurately, feels the best in my hand when shooting, is easiest to reload one handed, and carries the best just stuck in my belt. Then I would sell the other two and get some money back and buy more ammo and more spare magazines, have a good lunch, go chase some pretty women, and then head back to the range and shoot some more. You may wish to ignore lunch and pretty women but I would put enough time in on the range with either of the three or all three until you have decided.

This is Mikey's free 2 cents worth. I have noticed some fellers uppin' the ante to 10 cents or a quarter but I'm still 2 cents worth Mikey.

Wijbrandus · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2003, 05:39:37 AM »

Probably a bit late on this thread, but here's my two cents.

When I went to get my .45 a few years back, I explored all those options, and then some.

While all of those weapons are excellent choices, I chose a Sig Classic 220. While I didn't actually get to fire all of the models (that's the best way to choose), I did try them on for size. The Sig 220 fit my hand the best, and felt the most comfortable on my belt and in my grip.

Some of the other factors that influenced my decision on the Sig was the relative "lack of safety features" (as my wife puts it), as well as the fact that I know Sig has an excellent rep. I don't have a safety switch to worry about, and I can carry it with one in the pipe and not worry about it going off. I don't carry it "cocked & locked" like you can do with a 1911, but with one in the pipe, it's just a matter of point and pull, even if the first shot is double-action.

Fortunately, I'm not in a work situation where I've ever needed to use it in a defensive setting, so I can't comment on the other stuff. Some things the good Lord keeps you covered on, the rest is up to you.

~Robert

KING · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2003, 05:57:19 PM »

Its me again guys. We all kinda get prejudiced over what we carry. Any one of us who has been in any type of LEO work for an extended period of time is going to be a little prejudiced over what he carries.,that is something that is very haard to get over. I will have to say that ,Yes ,I am prejudiced toward the Glocks. This is due to all the testing that I have had to do over a lot of years. It also goes with all the area departments also going to Glocks and using my info and the other firearms instructers from my old department to make thier decisions over what to carry. In this area,all local department,except for one do carry Glocks. Mine has fallen over 15 feet to a concret floor,been inna mud,(and clay mud ta boot) and never burped a problem. Mine all have the 5 lb trigger. Now,if ya ask me if thats all I will carry,that answer is ...No. I do carrry a Glock as a primary arm,about 90 percent of the time,and a lot of times closer to 100 percent. After so many years it is an extension of my....Self,and does not need any direct thought processes from me to put it into action,other that putting it into either of my hands. Now,ya might find a 10mm in a shoulder holster sometimes also,that is not a Glock. Its been raced a little bit,and I do trust it,or I would not carry it. Ya might even find a little AMT 9mm sometimes in my pocket. When I was working I always carried that little gun in my left pocket of my duty pants. When talking to someone I would generally be found with one hand in my pocket and my right hand thumb hooked on my duty belt. Hardly an intimidating posture,but.looks can be decieving. I remember when everyone thought that the COLT PYTHON,was the best revolver around bar none. I have shot them,but give me a S & W model 19 any day over that piece of junk. It all depends on what we like or percieve what we maybe should like. Each of us is an individual unto ourselves,with our own opinions,and likes and dislikes. But,they are learned like and dislikes,and not from shooting only a couple hundred rounds of ammo,but from literally thousands of rounds. What it boils down to very simply is if you are asking someone for thier opinion,you want an opinion that is learned,pick the weapon of your choice and look at the pros and cons of that weapon. See if its comfortable,see if ya like the sights without having to go to aftermarkets,check and make sure you can actually hit something with it. When you have done all this,then ask someone that has some knowledge behind them,none of us has a chrystal ball to look into and we do not know how much experiance you havebody size,male or female,experiance shooter or not. Tonight I had a LEO that has been in the business for over 10 years stop at the house for a cup of coffee. It was a two part visit,one to talk cause im now retired from LEO,and the other ...well.....his UNLOCKER (SLIDE STOP) would not operate properly(new follower installed,all fixed). Every week I get asked questions from LEO,what to carry off duty,when the stop at my residence,these are not rookies ,some are,most have been on several years. It all depends on your(thiers) level of experiance. The variables are so many that you are the one that has to break em down. The most important is,is it simple to operate. If i get scared can I handle the caliber,and the most important...Do I as the one who carries this gun..really feel COMFORTABLE WITH IT......stay safe guys and gals...Im getting hungry...King

Savage · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2003, 03:47:50 AM »

Guys,
Simple solution here! Buy all three of the aforementioned weapons plus a Kimber "Pro Carry". Carry and shoot them all. I think you'll find one or the other will work best in different situtations. I have never found the thumb safety on a 1911 to slow down my presentation. I use the "Thumbs" grip whenever I shoot and this grip wipes the safety off when presented without thinking about it. I carry everything from Kel- Tecs to Kimbers with a fair share of Glocks thrown in. I enjoy owning and shooting them all!! I've never found any one gun that was perfect for carry all the time in all modes of dress. When off duty I most often have a Glock 36 with a Glock Clip in my waistband somewhere. If I were pressed to choose only one gun for CCW (God Forbid) I guess the 36 would get the nod--------
Stay Safe

JOE MACK · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2003, 01:54:26 PM »

Quote from: A62Rambler

I prefer 45's for protection. I have narrowed my choices for a carry weapon to: Glock 36, Sig 245, H-K USP compact I carried a glock(19) while working as a police officer and also carried a Sig(226). I like all three. I've shot a Glock 36 and liked it. But, I was never much of a glock fan. I've always preferred Sig's. My thoughts are this. I like the price of the Glock best. I like the Sig for accuracy and utter reliability. I like the cocked and locked option of the H-K. Size wise the H-K is bigger and less concealable. But, I've always wanted an H-K. I'm just stuck making this choice. What's your thoughts and why? Thanks in advance.

I really like my G36 for warm weather carry in the states I've got a CCW. In colder weather and wearing more clothing, I carry a Colt Combat Commander that's been worked over by the Gunsite 'smithy. Since you are very familiar with the manual of arms pertaing to the Glock, I'd probably go that way. All JMHO. RKBA! :wink:

A62Rambler · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2003, 05:58:55 PM »

Thanks for all the replies. I sure wish I could follow the best advice and buy all three but, reality check, I really will struggle to buy one. I do think I was given good advice by all. When I feel I can afford it, I'll let you know which one I get.

1badmagnum · « **Reply #18 on:** January 20, 2003, 05:27:01 PM »

its very very easy to justify any firearm purchase,especially a firearm you really enjoy shooting.you'll spend ten times the cost of a firearm over its lifetime with ammo,acessories etc.hk is real german engineering at its finest.I would rather spend a little more on a firearm and know I'm carrying a pistol I like and which not many people have.glocks are a dime a dozen,parts are everywhere,anyone can buy a piece of tupperware,but not as many people have the hk pistols.if the hk is really what you want go for it.

L-Roy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20, 2003, 05:53:02 PM »

.50AE in what?

Savage · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2003, 01:24:38 AM »

Too big and bulky----
Savage

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2003, 09:19:15 AM »

I don't mean to change the topic :wink: but, I would like to hear your thoughts on barrel lenght ie. 5" vs. 4 or 3.5" on a 1911 clone. Accuratecy would be my prime concern.

I'm looking at Kimbers custom II, I was leaning toward one bult like the ones issued to L.A.P. D.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/Custom_Custom_Target.htm

I have no intention on carring it daily as of this point in time. In this day & age one can not be sure of future need.

Thank you

Savage · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2003, 12:29:26 PM »

Boss,
If accuracy is your primiary concern then full size (5") is the only way to go!! The longer sight radius and adjustable sights along with a decent trigger put the full size way out in front as a target piece. The Classic Target in the Kimber line is hard to beat! If you plan to carry the piece, perhaps the Pro Carry HD with night sights. That would require you to find a load that shoots to point of aim with the fixed sights. Either one will shoot better than I can hold off hand with the proper loads.
Stay Safe,
Savage

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2003, 01:00:27 PM »

I remember reading an article somewere that the ave. distance of a real world self defence senerio was 7 yrds.

If that is true, I would think adj. sights would be a non-issue, if you even had the time to use them.

Savage · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2003, 11:36:44 PM »

Boss,
You said your primary concern was accuracy. Based on that requirement I stand by my reccomendation of a full size w/adjustable sights. I won't get into that old debate of sighted or point shooting in defensive encounters. I'll just state that if you use your sights it makes no difference if they are adjustable or fixed. A properly designed adjustable sight is no slower to aquire than the average fixed sight. So once again let me say if accuracy is your primary concern, go full size! If you want a more concealable piece go with a Commander or Officer's size.
Stay Safe,
Savage

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2003, 06:06:11 AM »

Savage - Thank you.

As I've said, I'm not as concerned about concealment. I'm a fairly large mammal and my FA model 83 isn't noticble when wore under a jacket. (Carried it in R.S.A. in the field & on the road) So, I'm not worried about a 5' barrel on a 1911.

Accuratcy is always the #1 priority, a pocket of full clips are useless if you can't hit what your shooting at. :lol:

Mikey · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2003, 08:44:33 AM »

Boss: Savage said it right. If your main focus is accuracy, the 5" Government length is what you want. If concealability with accuarcy is the focus, the 4" Commander should satisfy your needs. Even the 4 inch Commander can be a very accurate pistol if set up properly. Mikey.

Boss Kongoni · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2003, 02:24:13 PM »

I found a few minutes to stop by my local gun shop. :grin:

I'm pretty sure I know were my next bonus check is going. (Custom II set up like the LAPD model)

Thank You for your thoughts.

southernshooter · « **Reply #28 on:** March 01, 2003, 03:06:12 PM »

All of these high dollar premium hand guns mentioned work great! I can tell 'ol A62Rambler already knows that and is just throwing something out for discussion (We have to have something to talk about) Sig 220 fits my hand the best. A person just has to shoot it often enough to remember which lever is the decocker and which is the slide release without having to think about it. Beretta's are good but they don't feel right in my hand. Glock 21 shoots great, but feels huge. Funny thing is I am 55 yrs old and have many premium semi auto handguns but only one revolver. It is an old Astra 357 I bought in '71. Of all my guns guess which one has the best d/a and s/a trigger pull and also shoots the smallest group? You guessed it, the old Astra. I know this is drifting away from the which 45 should I get question.