Author Topic: Arrow Physics - crossbow vs bow (Read 8401 times)

jh45gun · « **Reply #150 on:** September 10, 2005, 03:38:30 PM »

In your mind maybe thats about it. I know what I see. you can take your physics all you want you still never explained the bumble bee flying even though physics says it is impossible. :roll: :roll: :roll: All I am saying is that a shorter shaft will drop faster as it is not as efficient as a longer shaft. I do not care what the reason is it is what I see due to that the xbow is about the same efficiency as a 70# bow this has been stated before at lots of archery sites so with in the given range. Due to the shorter arrow not being as efficient as the longer one the range has to be shorter for the xbow to be efficient. 40 yards is about it where some hunters that are expert shots will successfully take 60 yard shots Fred Bear comes to mind. Now not all archers are that good to do that but then not all xbow shooters should shoot at 40 either. Bottom line is you shoot at the distance you can hit good all the time wether it be 10 yards or 50 yards. Most guys I bet feel the best shooting 20 yards and under.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #151 on:** September 10, 2005, 03:49:47 PM »

jsteel:

You really like to split hairs...don't you...

Quote

Simply not true.

Physical law can calculate, define, and predict the trajectory of arrows more accurately than you can shoot them.

I would wager you a small fortune and prove you wrong...but I feel even then you would still disagree.

Physical law will only verify the trajectory if the actions are the exact same and if the forces are the exact same on the arrows that are being shot... ....these are 2 different distinct actions...the force draw curve on a compound is not the same as it is for a crossbow. Therefore the reaction of the arrow is totally different..The flex of the arrow will be different with different rest..therefore the trajectory of the arrow will be different....This fact has been in evidence since the first bows were built and shot.Period...no physical calculation can determine where the arrow will strike with 100% accuracy...change 1 minute thing...and you will get a totally different response..sure...there are various charts and formulas...but they are an approximation ... nothing more...nothing less...this doesn't come from books or charts...this comes from years of experiance shooting many various types of bows...and the assorted misc. equipment that goes with them.

Now...for the record...there are some compound bows that are ballisticlly inferior to some crossbows...just as there are some crossbows that are ballisticlly inferior to compounds...but ...if you really want to mess with each others minds try this on......there are some modern recurves and longbows that are more efficent...pound for pound.. than any compound or crossbow made to-date....

Mac

jh45gun · « **Reply #152 on:** September 10, 2005, 04:12:35 PM »

Good post Mac and I agree. To be honest with you I feel a recurve xbow is more owner friendly than the compounds are. I know recurves and longbows are over compounds. Now I like my Martin compound but in this day of fancy cams and extreme letoff I chose a wheel bow as it is more user friendly than the cam bows are. You could hit Jsteele over the head with the facts and he still would not believe you. This is the only thread he has used here so what does that tell you?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #153 on:** September 10, 2005, 07:28:45 PM »

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This is the only thread he has used here so what does that tell you?

Perhaps this is the only debate he feels strongly enough to argue....

I haven't a better answer than that...for I know not the reason why he has only chosen this one...but I understand the reasons behind those that put utter faith in formulas...they have to have an explanation that can be repeated...if only on paper to be able to justify their stance.it makes sense to them then too and fits their way of thinking,thus it makes it more difficult to explain it in a different light so that they can understand it....It can be proven this way... only if everything is exactly the same...and in this case it is not..There are too many different variables involved.Formulas and theories have their place and can help to take a-lot of guess work out of unknowns...they are a starting point..to try to make sense and give logic to some difficult problems...but it is so easy to get caught up in them without using common sense...a case in point..big fat projectiles slow down faster than large slim projectiles of similar weight when launched at similar velocities...it's caused by resistance acting on a larger surface area...either in the air,water,or when going thru an animal.There is a formula for figuring out this common known fact...but is it needed...we've proven it to ourselves as children sticking our hands out of the window of our parents cars or when slicing our hands thru the water when we played in the tub...

As you all here call them...X-bows...they are treated as a scourge by many...just as compounds were at one time...but that is changing in this fast pace world we live in,and they are becoming accepted,just as compound have.Neither hold the spirit of archery thru cables and pulleys...and never will.This doesn't make them evil,nor does it make them better,because " better is a subjective word...that holds many different meanings...to each individual...and.. we all have to find which is best for ourselves.

The time for argueing amonst ourselves should end...and we all should work for the betterment of our sport..

Mac

jh45gun · « **Reply #154 on:** September 10, 2005, 07:46:30 PM »

The time for argueing amonst ourselves should end...and we all should work for the betterment of our sport..

Mac

Very True Mac. Unfortunately this discussion started at the xbow board here with Jsteele and Dukkillr looking for a aguement. They got one but as you say time to move in it has been beat to death here and no matter what Jsteele will probably claim victory if we do as I think that is the way he works. :shock:

dukkillr · « **Reply #155 on:** September 10, 2005, 08:00:37 PM »

It takes 2 to argue. We both know there are a great number of hunters who don't share your opinion. Why is our opinion the one that should be silenced?

jh45gun · « **Reply #156 on:** September 11, 2005, 03:42:02 AM »

You and Jsteele can talk all you want but I am done with it.

dukkillr · « **Reply #157 on:** September 11, 2005, 06:09:01 AM »

good to hear

Mac11700 · « **Reply #158 on:** September 11, 2005, 06:21:56 AM »

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Why is our opinion the one that should be silenced?

A point of clarification is in order...no-one said your opinion had to be silenced..I just said it was time to stop argueing amonst ourselves and work together for the betterment of the sport...Everyone is intitaled to his own opinion,and since this is at an impass,isn't the best thing to do is to act like civalized men and respect each others opinions.

Mac

dukkillr · « **Reply #159 on:** September 11, 2005, 01:11:00 PM »

If you look back over this entire discussion and the related threads in the xbow section you'll find several people making accusations and throwing insults. I challenge you to find where I have done either. I believe there are others who have shown far less "respect" for my opinion than I have of theirs.

jh45gun · « **Reply #160 on:** September 11, 2005, 02:29:09 PM »

Ok so we will elect you to sainthood

All I said was I am done argueing about it as I have my opinion and you and JS have yours. I think we have hashed it over enough and it is an impasse so why bother.

jhm · « **Reply #161 on:** September 12, 2005, 11:43:38 AM »

Im willing to bet we havent heard the last of it.

dukkillr · « **Reply #162 on:** September 12, 2005, 01:19:03 PM »

No question about that. Although I like the odds of my two states (KS and MO) standing up to the xbow makers, at least for the forseeable future.