Author Topic: stokes type mortar in 1707? (Read 1271 times)

BADGER BOB · « **on:** April 28, 2005, 07:05:46 AM »

Hi,folks. found a picture in the links for pre-1898 cannons that shows a mortar on a bipod predating the stokes by nearly 200 years.was the patent for the stokes about the way it fired-by dropping the round onto a fixed firing pin or the basic design? Reason I'm asking is the recent posts about legality of the mortars on legs.Just curious what ya'll think. The picture is of a russian antique mortar with legs.Badger Bob

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2005, 08:19:42 AM »

It's not the issue of drop by firing, since we use ignition by fuse/percussion after loading, it is the legal wording of what is allowed by law, namely 'replica of' or original designed/built in 1898 or before.

Stokes got the idea from watching something fall and saw something in construction with supporting legs and put the two together - in about 1914.

So the real issue is whether there is another similar use of the concept of two supporting legs being used before 1899.

Try again on the pix - my confuser didn't bring up a picture or even the little red X. Also include a URL for background info - it'd really help to verify the information.

THANKS!!

GGaskill · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2005, 08:29:52 AM »

I wonder if it was ever fired. The leg behind the barrel seems awfully spindly to resist recoil.

Russian 6-funt bronze mortar Model of 1707

A "funt" is an old Russian unit of weight equal to .903 lbs so a 6 "funter" would be roughly equivalent to a 5 1/2 pounder (about 3.35" diameter.)

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2005, 12:10:59 PM »

Aside from all the humerous thoughts about Allan Funt, this is a GREAT find. It looks like a museum with a wide assortment.

Let the research continue!

I think the recoil would be ok - it would act to compress the main post under the bronze tube - maybe driving it into the ground a bit, but it should be strong enough.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2005, 01:18:18 PM »

looks like that could be the full scale version of the contest winner,or at least one where you wouldn't have to get all the way down there to load it.

BADGER BOB · « **Reply #5 on:** April 29, 2005, 03:41:42 AM »

Thanks for posting the picture for me, GGaskill!

---I was trying to read the picpostingnotes to figure out how-it's been awhile.There are some amazing cannons/mortars on that site,looks like the russians like things that go BOOM too and have for a while.anyway I thought it would be good info to share.BB

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2005, 06:35:28 AM »

Looks like a Handgonne ona tripod...

GGaskill · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2005, 09:25:06 AM »

Looks like the site with the picture of the Russian tripod mortar has gone away. Did any one save a copy of the image? I may have but not on this computer. If someone saved it, I can put it on my web server and change the link in the post.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2005, 02:43:26 PM »

I haven't found a copy here.

1707 was a really interesting year - Peter the Great and so forth.

Doing a Google search has not yet for me found the picture.

If I remember correctly, it was in a MUSEUM. Which one?

GGaskill · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2005, 03:01:22 PM »

Some Russian one but the website belonged to someone else. I'll check my other computers when I get home.

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2005, 06:58:31 PM »

That mortar is in the Russian Army Artillery Museum and had little in common with a Stokes. It appeared to be more and over sized hand gonne sitting on tripod.

GGaskill · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:17:37 PM »

I was looking at it from the perspective of a touch hole fired mortar supported by a bipod. Obviously it didn't use dropped shells the way a Stokes does. I think it could be used as a citation of pre-1898 art in a discussion with the ATF.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2005, 03:34:06 AM »

I don't think ATF would go for it.

The Model 1707 was a short squat mortar tube that sat upon a tripod.

The Stokes is a long tube that sits on a base on the ground. The long tube has legs to hold the tube upright. The mount that attaches the legs to the tube controls elevation and windage.

The trick is to convince ATF that the two are the same.

What you might do is contact Polemological museum of Artillery,
Engineers' and Signal corps and see if they can provide you with pictures or drawing of the 1707. Use them with your drawings of the mortar you intend to build and send the whole works to ATF for determination and approval. When you get the determination letter from ATF then post it here for all to see.

For right now absence any letter from ATF any mortar that utilizes the Stokes design or parts does not meet the criteria for posting on this forum. If somebody comes up with a letter from ATF saying stokes meets the antique replica description then we will hold the door wide open for these mortars on this board.