favorite 45-70 load velocity?

[MSP Ret]

OK guys, I have asked this before to no avail, hopefully someone out there can help. Does anyone with a chronograph have the velocity of the following load, my favorite and most accurate 45-70 Handi Rifle load. 28.0 grains of 2400 behind a 350 grain Hornady RN? Thanks in advance for anyone who may be able to supply the info. I am interested in how that particular bullet might react at it's given load velocity on a whitetail. Will the bullet mushroom and trasfer it's energy to the deer or will it just punch straight through without upsetting? Velocity and facts would be nice but opinions are accepted also....<><.... :grin:

[Datil]

MSP ret
 My thoughts on this load, When you put one of those pills in
 a white tail, you have meat in the skillet, I don't have any 2400
 at this time if I did, I'd try it and chonograph and let you know.
 Best to you Marv.

[dodd3]

msp ret  
in the hornady handbook vol 11 1886 winchester 26inch barrel  28.3grns of 2400  is 1400 fps hope this helps.
bernie :wink:

[MSP Ret]

Thanks guys, If I'm getting about 1300 fps out of my 22" barrel with 28.0 grains it should be a very short track, more than likely, none at all!!!! Now all I have to do is find a big one near a trail to make it a short drag!!!....<><.... :grin:

[quickdtoo]

I think I just found the answer to this question in the Hornady 6th edition...in the preface for their trapdoor 45-70 load data....they state:

For the older rifles we have included only our 300 grain jacketed hollow point. This bullet is constructed to expand properly at the lower velocities....

Their load data starts at 1300fps for the 300gr HP.

Looking at their 1895 Marlin load data, they show start velocities for the 350gr RN #4502 and 350gr FP #4503 as 1400fps.....and max velocities of 2200fps in the Ruger #1 data...FWIW.

Not that the 350gr wouldn't kill a deer starting out at 1300fps, it's just not going to expand any, if at all.

[Lone Star]

I used a 350 RN Hornady on a caribou some years ago, muzzle velocity was 1800 fps.  Hit the 'bou through the lungs at 50 yards, he went another 50 and piled up.  The bullet wasn't recovered (no surprise) but there was no evidence of much expansion either.  It did kill the big guy, but I'd have been better off with the 300 HP.  I've used that on mucho Kodiak Island deer with great success, it is a far better deer bullet IMO.

[Longcruise]

I think a hard cast flat point will serve better in those 1200 to 1400 fps ranges.  A wide meplat that will stay flat on impact and will also penetrate (cause it dosn't expand) will make an adequate wound channel and bring about instant "decompression" of the circulatory system in just about any size animal.

Here is a load that is impressively accurate in my hi wall.  Your velocity out of 22" may drop but there is room to boost the charge in this load (consult your load manual, notice the many typeos in my posts!!)

Rem case
Rem 405 sp (flat point!)  (wonder how the Speer 400 would shoot?)
WLR primer
52.4 Grain Varget
COAL adjusted to just touch the lands in my rifle (this was critical to accuracy)
Avg velocity 1584
SD 40.71 (would probably come down with a bit hotter load)
Mzl Energy 2257 ft lbs
TKO  41.88 :shock:

Not a shoot all day load in a light rifle, but recoils is managebale.

[sureshot2040]

the hunting bullet that me and my two shooting buddies use is a 500 grain bps or a 550 grain flat point bullet double cast with everything above the front driving band being pure lead to ensure expansion.
we have recovered bullets measuring up to .875 diameter and retaining around 80-90 percent weight.
sureshot

[MSP Ret]

Great info, thanks to all!....<><.... :grin:

[moose]

MSP Ret--------My 45-70 seems to like the Hornady or the Remington factory loads looking foward to shooting a "test target"....Hopefully a GA. whitetail :grin:  Buck in about middle of October :-) maybe you can shoot a "test target" GA. wild Boar-------after New Years!!!!!!!

[Mac11700]

MSP:

While the 350 roundnose is a darn good bullet...it most likely won't expand much at the lower velocities...unless you take a shoulder shot and bust through the shoulder blade.If your wanting a fairly mild recoiling load...try working some up with either the Speer 300 grain Hot-Core....or the Nosler 300 grain Partition...the hot-core is a whole lot less money than the Noslers and from everything I've read works really good on deer sized animals.Either one will open at reduced velocities and should do rather well,and both will shoot almost to the same point of impact as each other out of my Handi,but the Noslers have the edge on accuracy...and being able to withstand a-lot more and still hold together due to their design,as most premium bullets do...I haven't any reloading data for your 2400 powders and these bullets,cause I normally load these up to much higher velocities...which you can always do if you so desired.The factory offering with this load from Federal averages around 1900 fps out of my Handi...it may be to hot for you...but it is pretty accurate...and you can buy the bullets to reload if you want...here's the link to Speers reloading data..http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/ReloadingSupplementalDATA/4570_300.pdf

Hope this helps..

Mac

[Zeke Menuar]

FWIW.

I am using Remington's 405gr bullet out of a BC.

I am using 50gr of AA2015 to get 1950fps.  Should knockdown anything short of Godzilla.  Accuracy of good enough to hit golf balls at 100+ yards.
 I am working on a reduced load of 47.5gr to help keep my shoulder in the socket.  I have not ran this load across the chrono but I am guessing between 1800 and 1850fps.
 The cost of the Remington bullet, $13.00 per 100, means I can use the same bullet for practice and hunting.  

ZM

[Lone Star]

I am using Remington's 405gr bullet out of a BC.  I am using 50gr of AA2015 to get 1950fps.  Should knockdown anything short of Godzilla.  

Gads, I don't envy your shoulder!  BTW, Keith did not recommend the factory 405-grain bullets for over 1850 fps, he thought they were too soft for large game (they are cheap though!).  You might want to consider the Hornady or Speer 350s instead, they are both much tougher than the 405s and would probably be better suited for large game.  I used the Hornady 350 to kill a 9.5-foot brownie with my M98 in .45-70. Compelte penetration at ~50 yards launched at near 2050 fps.

[Zeke Menuar]

 The cost of the Remington bullet, $13.00 per 100, means I can use the same bullet for practice and hunting.  

Cost is an issue.  I have 16? rifles and three handguns to support.  The Remington bulk bullets are priced in the same ballpark as some cast bullets.

I am throttling back the load to a more comfortable level and still take care of business.

ZM

[moose]

ttt for MSP Ret>

[cwlongshot]

FWIW.

I am using Remington's 405gr bullet out of a BC.

I am using 50gr of AA2015 to get 1950fps.  Should knockdown anything short of Godzilla.  Accuracy of good enough to hit golf balls at 100+ yards.
 I am working on a reduced load of 47.5gr to help keep my shoulder in the socket.  I have not ran this load across the chrono but I am guessing between 1800 and 1850fps.
 The cost of the Remington bullet, $13.00 per 100, means I can use the same bullet for practice and hunting.  

ZM

 I really like this bullet too. But FYI, it is pretty soft and will over expand and come apart on bones at your listed velocities. I try to keep it to below 1700fps.  I even think that, that is pushing it a bit. I have shot everything from water bottles to ballistic gellitain, and 1600fps is the magic number for the Remington 405gr bullet.

If this is the velocity you prefer, try the Speer 400SP. Its better designed for the 2000fps range. Personally, I shoot both. The Remington in my handi rifle, as it is light and recoils more than my Marlins or Browning. The Speer 400gr is for the Marlin's and my Browning highwall, its loaded to 1950fps.

CW

[Zeke Menuar]

I picked up a box of Speer 350gr Hot-Cor bullets to try.  They are supposed to hang together and penetrate better that the Remington 405's.

ZM

[cwlongshot]

I picked up a box of Speer 350gr Hot-Cor bullets to try.  They are supposed to hang together and penetrate better that the Remington 405's.

ZM

 Don't get me wrong, the Remington 405 is a great bullet! I just found its limitations where too much speed. Keep it with in its intended velocity range and you will be fine.

 I need to check that bullet, I THINK it and the Hornady 350 RN are designed for the 458 mag. So likely wont reliably expand unless max velocity is reached and even then, you need a strong heavy animal with thick hide and heavy bone to cause bullet upset.

CW

[quickdtoo]

If you look at the Hornady 6th edition, you'll see that the 350gr hornady RN and FP are designed for loads of 1400fps and higher in level 2 and up to 2200fps in level 3 loads and on up to 2500fps in the 458 Win mag. They don't recommend it for any of the trapdoor level 1 loads.

[knight0334]

If you can figure out what Winchester loads their Super-X 300gr JHP's with, you might be nicely surprised.  They claim 1880fps in muzzle velocity, could be more/could be less give individual rounds and rifle.

My hand shot hole-in-ones and ragged holes at 50 yards with that ammo and factory open sites.  ..not just for me, but both my dad and uncle.

As soon as I get my loading station back together from moving, I'm pulling a slug out of a Super-X round, figuring out what powder it is and weighting it.

[Zeke Menuar]

I picked up a box of Speer 350gr Hot-Cor bullets to try.  They are supposed to hang together and penetrate better that the Remington 405's.

ZM

 Don't get me wrong, the Remington 405 is a great bullet! I just found its limitations where too much speed. Keep it with in its intended velocity range and you will be fine.

 I need to check that bullet, I THINK it and the Hornady 350 RN are designed for the 458 mag. So likely wont reliably expand unless max velocity is reached and even then, you need a strong heavy animal with thick hide and heavy bone to cause bullet upset.

CW

A passage from the Speer manual #12 page 402 says the 350gr Hot-Cor bullet is designed to expand at velocites above 1900fps.  Easily attainable in my BC.  Not sure what it would take to get past 1900fps in a 22" Handi, not to mention what it would do to ones shoulder.

ZM