Author Topic: 338 vs 35Whelen (Read 2213 times)

bmbtek02 · « **on:** December 12, 2005, 04:31:45 PM »

I am looking at building a rifle to hunt BIG Bears in Alaska and I was thinking of 338 win mag or a 35Whelen but I have no knowledge of either cartridge is either one even enough gun for the bears? I was thinking 250gr Nosler partition. I had originally though of an encore but with no fast follow up shot probably a bad choice so I decided on a ruger mkII. Any help would greatly be appreciated!

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #1 on:** December 12, 2005, 04:59:04 PM »

I own a 338 mag in a Ruger m77. My goal is to hunt Bears in Alaska also. I can not speak for the 35, but the 338 has been with me a few years, and has become my favorite rifle. I have used it for Coyote to Mule Deer. I have some smaller cal rifles but this one carries a 2.5x10 Baush&Lomb Elite 4000 scope, 2lb trigger, and shoots 215 to 250 grain bullets holding dead on out to 225 yds in a kill zone for deer sized animals. Lots of bullets available for reloading, but buying ammo off the shelf will give you a jolt in the wallet.
Jim

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 12, 2005, 05:25:26 PM »

Either will work just fine with a small edge to the 338 WM. I doubt that a bear would be able to tell the difference. I am a big fan of the whelen and would recomend it to anyone, especially if they reload. The 338 is universally available and proven also. I'd find a rifle you like first then decide caliber. For a dedicated bear gun I wouldn't overlook the 375 H&H. Very mild recoil and real hammer on game.

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #3 on:** December 12, 2005, 05:59:58 PM »

As Thebear_78 stated either will do. The .338 may gain a little because of a better B.C. over longer ranges but the bear won't know.

I think if I were a brown bear I'd prefer a Classic .35 Whelen from a stainless Ruger. :yeah:

bmbtek02 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 12, 2005, 09:01:01 PM »

I have shot the 338 but never shot the 375 how much more recoil is there and is it worth it? I dont think the 338 with a 200gr kicks that bad but I have not shot a 250grainer out of the 338 either.

45north · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2005, 05:18:22 PM »

I own one of each cal., the 338 and the 375 are the best choises in my opinion because of good factory ammo. No really good factory ammo for the 35 whelen that I am aware of. But if you like to roll your own ammo the 35 whelen is a dream come true, bullets from 110gr. soft lead to 300 gr. FMJ and everything in between.
The 35 whelen and the 338 WM are very close in performance on big game, with good ammo, but the 375 H&H is the king IMVHO. It hits harder, bigger heavier bullet moving faster.
If you are not a resident of alaska or canada then you will have to hire a guide for brown bear and sheep hunting. And most guides that I know like to have their hunters use the biggest gun they can shoot accurately, in field posistions.

45north

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2005, 06:15:53 PM »

Flatter trajectory is the ONLY thing the .338 has going for it over the Whelan and at the ranges bears are shot that's of no concern. Of more value is the larger bore of the Whelen. I'd go with the Whelen, hey in fact I did, I have one.

45north · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2005, 05:02:36 PM »

I also like the whelen I trust it with my life and have many times. But the original post is about a dedicated brown bear rifle and the 375 H&H is king IMO also the opinion of many many people that live and work in big bear country.

45north

msorenso · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:51:56 AM »

Go with the 338 win mag. Offer a lot more wallop. Unless you think 400 fps isn't much difference :?

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2005, 05:32:03 AM »

If your all set on the Ruger then your only choice of the two is a 338 Win mag. Unless you plan on getting it rebarreled. As to the 338 being that much more powerful than the 35 whelen. If you look at nosler custom ammo for the two you will find only 50fps difference in the 250gr weights. They load the 250gr partion out of the 338 at 2600fps, and the 250gr partition out of the whelen at 2550. I seriously doubt any animal could tell the difference. The whelen will do it with less powder and therfore less recoil. Not to mention the whelen ammo is cheaper :grin:

http://www.noslerammunition.com/338WIN250PT.html
http://www.noslerammunition.com/35WHELEN250PT.html

In my reloading experience between the two of them your lucky to get 200fps more out of any reasonable bullet weight. Good luck with your choice.

jim21 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2006, 04:30:09 PM »

No opinion on which one,they both make big holes.

nasem · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2006, 03:52:56 AM »

Get a browning BAR in .338 (yep, semi auto 338 winchester magnum). that solves your "second follow up shot" issue. Did I forget to mension my BAR easily gets 1"(most of the time less) groups @ 100 yards.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2006, 03:42:41 AM »

I'd choose the Whelen for brownies. If for no other reason than to be able to say I took a grizzlie with a Whelen. Using the state-of-the-art technology takes some of the fun out of the hunt. The Whelen is nothing more than a .30-06 case necked up, and the round has been around for 80+ years. Yet at the same time, choosing the .35 Whelen is not considered some insane deathwish.

I suspect that with what Federal and Hornady have done with their High Energy and Light Magnum loads, this same idea applied to the Whelen would make it one heck of a powerhouse.

Hammerspur · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2006, 04:09:06 AM »

I'd go for the .375 H&H. Mine is a No. 1, a rifle reputed to be a bad kicker... seems like an exageration to me from shooting it.

Should be even less concern in a M77 or other bolt, (ready follow up being WELL advised IMHO for your purposes!) ammo available in variety and no wondering about it's effectiveness.

crash87 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2006, 06:34:06 PM »

Having successfully taken a Br/bear in Alaska, I feel able to give a opinion, and its just an opinion, mine. I used my scoped Ruger 77 S.Steel chambered for the .338 Win. Had I not been hunting Sheep also, I would have taken my '95 Winchester, rebored to .35 Whelen. Greybeard is right at the range you shoot bears theres really no difference in the "killing power" of each. In fact I like the advantage of carrying 4 in the magazine as opposed to 3, open the action (assuming you have time) drop one down the spout and now you have 5. My first shot killed him, only I was the only one who knew it, 2 more before he hit the alders and then he relized it, but then I was empty, fortunatley I didnt need anymore. Alaska Bears are #*^%#!+ TOUGH! CRASH87

nomosendero · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2006, 05:52:52 AM »

For Bear hunting or really any Big Game out to 250 yards, I think it really
doesn't matter, I think the bullet selection is more important than which of
these 2 cartridges you use.

For Elk hunting that may present a long range shot, then I would much rather have the 338, just in case the longer shot is the only one offered.

fatercat · « **Reply #16 on:** May 07, 2006, 01:00:51 PM »

i'm getting 2825 fps with 225 gn barns txs in 35 whelen. just don't think 338 can beat it at any range

nasem · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2006, 06:32:47 AM »

Quote from: fatercat

i'm getting 2825 fps with 225 gn barns txs in 35 whelen. just don't think 338 can beat it at any range

I believe you can load up 338 win mag 225-gr bullets to go pass that. but youd be really loading up some hot rounds and I would not really feel comfortable doing it. 2825 fps with a 225gr on a 35 whelen ? is that even safe ?

fatercat · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2006, 11:51:22 AM »

62.5 gns. reloder 15-rem brass and large rifle primer. no pressure sign at all. rem. 700 cdl 24" barrel. 10 ft with chrony. less 1 1/2 inch group. had some loads with 63 gns but was getting tired of getting kicked so i stopped.

nomosendero · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2006, 05:35:13 PM »

The 338 can be loaded to 2,900-2,950 with a 225 Grain bullet, & remember the BC is much higher for the 338 than the same weight in a .35 Cal.

One thing for sure, the load fatercat gives is quick & maybe he has a fast barrel & maybe he doesn't, but is impressive just the same. I did not say that the Whelen could not be used for long range, but for the reason above
I would prefer the 338, if they are loaded to the same pressure, the 338
will have the edge.

fatercat · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2006, 02:02:15 AM »

i have used the 35 whelen and not the 338. with factory federal 225 bear claw at 2600 fps (their specs) went threw elk and stoped under hide on off side. just perfect but i did not weigh spent bullit. these triple schock buletts may be faster in all calibers. i got the 35 whelen and as a old bear guide told me once"it's good enough for who's its for" i guess i'll stick with that.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2006, 04:31:53 AM »

fatercat,

That charge for your Whelen seems a little warm. The book maximums I've seen for 200 grain jacketed bullets are 60.0 grs RL-15, and for a 250 grain jacketed bullet => 59.5 grs RL-15.

BUSTER51 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 16, 2006, 02:36:12 PM »

load seam kinda hot to me also ,how safe is it ? is it backing out the primers ? bet you don't get many reloads on the brass with that load . :?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #23 on:** May 17, 2006, 11:55:15 AM »

I've shot several brown bears, and was in on many other big bear hunts.

Back when i was looking for my "perfect" brown bear rifle, one choise i was considering was the 350 Rem. mag... (same balistics as the 35 Whelen) I had (3) different rifles chambered in .350 RM includeing a Ruger 77. At that time i also had P.O. Ackley make me a .338-06 (rebored 30-06) in another Ruger 77, and a couple .338 Win. mag's.. After much handloading and useing both extensively on big game with different loads, i came to the conclusion that the .338 bullets "out performed" the .35's on big game, so i no longer used the .350 Rem mag. after that.

Instead i built me a rifle useing a LH 700 Rem. action, Douglas premium bbl. and english walnut stock that's in the below picture. The first (3) years after i settled on the .338-06 i harvested (13) big game animials with it includeing moose, caribou, brown bear, sitka blk tailed deer ect... And although i no longer live in Alaska i still have the rifle.

After haveing said all of that, i do agree that "today" useing NP's in both, they both would be plenty for any brown bear at reasonable range. I said useing NP's because i believe they are the best designed "expanding" bullet for big game ever designed.

For big bears you need an expanding bullet with LOT's of penetration and NP's are designed to do this better than all else. I found that "in general", .338's penetrate deeper than the 35's but i expect the NP's would even this out a bit...

Drilling Man