Powerbelts

[Spit]

Let hear the pros and cons of Powerbelts--295's.

Terminal effectiveness....
How about severe angle shots..
Pass throughs?

You guys like em' or not.

[daddywpb]

I started out using sabots. After having to practically stand on the ramrod to seat them, I gave the Powerbelts a try and will never go back. Easy to load and just as accurate as any sabot I ever used. I use a 295 Powerbelt and two Pyrodex pellets in my Omega. The bullet went through both shoulders of a 110 pound hog and kept on going. He dropped in his tracks. Small entry - large exit. I have read that people have had problems with Powerbelts expanding, But I have not.

[ELMO]

I used 295 powerbelt aero tips earlier this month up in northern Quebec and shot a Caribou. The powder charge was 2 50gr Triple Seven pellets. Shot placement was behind the shoulder with the animal angled slightly towards me at maybe 45 yards. At the shot the animal ran maybe 40 yards stopped to look back at me for a few seconds then it started wobbling and fell over. This bullet and powder combination served me well as there was complete pass through and I get real good accuracy with it in my muzzleloader....... :-)

[Redhawk1]

I used power belts for years. The 295 powerbelt aero tips was what my 50 Cal Encore shot the best and I took a lot of deer with them. The accuracy was very good. Last year I switch to 195 gr. DC's from Precision rifle. I like the improvement in accuracy and having a flatter shooting projectile. But I did not find anything wrong with the powerbelts.  

[Busta]

Spit,

I guess that depends on what you are hunting. For Elk, NO WAY! I just got back from Colorado earlier this week and last week I witnessed a 295 grain aero tip PowerBelt FAILURE. My good friend has used them on Michigan whitetails with great success for several years and had no reason to expect a different result on Elk, boy was he ever wrong.

We called a big 6x6 herd bull into 30 yards, he was madder than a wet hornet. My friend shot the standing bull at 28 yards with the 295 grain PowerBelt aero-tip on top of 110 grains of Pyrodex, the bull went down on his chest, got back up and went down again. The bull then got back up and we watched in horror as he ran out of sight while my friend was reloading. I figured that we would find him piled up within a hundred yards or so. After 6 hours of tracking over a distance of 3/4 of a mile the measly blood trail dried up. We never did find any good lung blood, it was all from the shoulder and not much at that. We tracked and looked until dark and returned the next morning and were unable to find any more sign. After circling for a few more hours we were unable to find anything. Needless to say, my friend was very upset with himself for not waiting for a better angle for the shot and is just sick about the outcome.

I had just shot a 5x5 a couple days earlier with a NEF Huntsman loaded with a White 430 grain Super Slug sitting on top of 80 grains of FFFG Triple Se7en. The only difference was my bull was shot in the left shoulder at 46 yards and his in the right shoulder at 28 yards. My bull went 56 yards and was dead on arrival, his bull is still wandering around.

My Theory:

My bullet being a solid all lead conical was able to penetrate the shoulder knuckle and continue through lungs and the top of the heart. His bullet with the hollow point so deep must have fragmented on the heavy bone and expended all the energy into the shoulder. The bullet must have lost so much mass that it was unable to penetrate into the chest cavity. Remember the shoulder ball and socket on a whitetail is around the size of a golf ball, on an Elk it is nearly baseball size and has probably around 5 times the mass. It is my opinion that a solid lead conical is a far better choice when hunting elk than a hollow pointed PowerBelt.

You can be sure that my friend will never go Elk hunting with a PowerBelt again, ever. While I am sure this bullet would have performed much differently going through on a perfect broadside shot through soft tissue and both lungs, you never know what type of shot you are going to get.

I like the added insurance of a heavy lead conical on truly BIG GAME such as Elk. For the average whitetail the PowerBelts may be fine, but for your big whitetails Spit, you may want to think about it. :wink:

[Cmarti]

I loved the ease of loading and the accuracy at the range.  I was shooting
295 grain hollow points for three years.  Several (4) of us hunting partners felt we were having penetration problems and had terrible blood trails.  I put this in another thread. Admittedly, No science involved, and many here will disagree with our conclusions.  It is hard to argue with some of the results folks have stated here, but I was not happy.  Too many bad blood trails between the 4 of us.  Played around with T/C shockwaves for my encore, but they were miserable to load. (even after using thinwalled sabots)  I am giving the 250 gr Sabertooth a try at 120 grain my encore and 90 gr APP FFG in my New Englander.  I have had solid results at the range.  Groups within .5 " of the Shockwaves and PowerBelts, load almost as easy as a PowerBelt.   I will have to wait till
gun season to see if I like the results on game. Good luck

[coop2564]

I tried them and could not get any form of accuracy. Shooting at 100yds I would find some of the plastic caps laying in front of the target and some 30yds from were I was shooting. Tried XTP sabots and got good groups. I've since learned you can lube the snap post and get the plastic to come off better, but I got such good groups with sabots I never tried them again.

[poncaguy]

I use 348 grain Powerbelt HP's, hit a doe high on right shoulder, took out lungs and found expanded slug (3/4") just under skin on far side. I believe with Powerbelts, the heavier, the better. Use 3 777 pellets, 2 does so far this year.

[Lane]

I've shot at least 10 deer in the last 4 years, all with PowerBelts.  Longest shot was around 60 yards. (I also bow hunt and get close to most of my game)

50cal CVA MagHunter, with 100gns of 3F APP pushing a 295grn HP/PB, open sights or a 1x32 Simmons ProHunter Scope.  This set-up NEVER passed thru the deer.  Always obliterated the vitals to the point of disintegration!  Deer never took another step!  Boom Flop :shock:  

That's exactly what I want my bullets to do.  No Blood trails needed :wink:


Now on the other hand, 4 of those 10 deer I got with my son's 45cal CVA Kodiak.  Shooting 225 HP/PB with 80grns of 3F APP.
  Punched a hole clean thru all 4 for me and 2 for my son.  They stagger a bit and then Flop.  One old gray muzzle doe(6.5 years old) took a 60 yard shot straight thru both lungs, and proceeded to run 100 yards spraying blood a blind man could follow :-)

Fact is those 45cals have more "sectional density" big words that mean bullet penetrate real good :shock:  


HP/PB's at close range may always disintigrate, expending all the energy into the deer--Fine by me! I still haven't taken any Long shots to speak of.


IMO aerotips in the 348-405-444grn would by Ideal for Elk and larger game cause there is more bullet to push the expanding nose thru the game.


Yea, make mine a PowerBelt every time, easy to load and reload, and knocks the game flat!

BOOM FLOP baby :shock:  :eek:  :grin:    :wink:

[poncaguy]

The doe I shot at 20 yards was a complete pass through with very little expansion, bang flop with the 348.............

[Cmarti]

The doe I shot at 20 yards was a complete pass through with very little expansion, bang flop with the 348.............

Poncaguy 20 yards, Lane at 40 & 60 yards,...I thought you guys outwest perfected the long shot because of the open country!  Seriously, our problems involved longer shots, but not crazy shots.  The longest was 120 yards and and most around 75.  I bow hunt 4 months a year, it is nice to be on foot and have the option of greater distance two weeks a year in Ohio.  We recovered all deer but two, out of 13 hit,over a 3 year period. But none "flopped",  and the recovery in the strip pit thickets is anything but pretty without a blood trail.  Marksmanship may have something to do with some our recovery efforts, and there are many factors that effect performance.  However, we had some boiler room hits that were fatal, but did not drop them on the spot and did not pass through to allow easy tracking.  One of our group went to Hornady XTP, and our observation was it was more effective on game.  No engineers in our group, or physics majors, just hunters making observations.  I know that can be bad science.  On the other hand it is always fun to try new loads.

[poncaguy]

Well, last year during rifle season, got my 6 point at 351 steps. Bow season starts here Saturday, I hope I get some 20 yard shots with my crossbow!

[elkstalkr]

Elk and deer are TOTALLY different creatures when it comes to the way thier are built and how a bullet will perform on them.

I found this out the hard way rifle hunting.  Never again will I make that mistake.  IF you shoot an elk in the shoulder you better have something big and bad to penetrate into the chest cavity.  Small calibers and light weight bullets WILL NOT penetrate the shoulder of an elk like they will a deer.  

Yes smaller calibers/light weight bullets will kill an elk, but you better make double damn sure you hit him behind the shoulder and not in it.

That being said.  Has anyone shot an elk with the 348 grain PB?  In the shoulder?  How was the performance?  I hunted elk with a 348 gr. PB this year, but never got the chance to try it out on my quarry.  I think I may switch to a heavy conical if I go again.

[Busta]

Elk and deer are TOTALLY different creatures when it comes to the way thier are built and how a bullet will perform on them.

I found this out the hard way rifle hunting.  Never again will I make that mistake.  IF you shoot an elk in the shoulder you better have something big and bad to penetrate into the chest cavity.  Small calibers and light weight bullets WILL NOT penetrate the shoulder of an elk like they will a deer.  

Yes smaller calibers/light weight bullets will kill an elk, but you better make double damn sure you hit him behind the shoulder and not in it.

That being said.  Has anyone shot an elk with the 348 grain PB?  In the shoulder?  How was the performance?  I hunted elk with a 348 gr. PB this year, but never got the chance to try it out on my quarry.  I think I may switch to a heavy conical if I go again.

Smart thinking! My friend will be using a heavy conical also, the proof is in the picture.

[Grunthunter]

I'm shooting the 295gr PowerBelts in my Encore with two 50fr 777 Pellets and the 209 primer, which I'm going to try the new 209ML primers.

Just what kind of accuracy is everyone getting with them at 100 yds and what should I realistically expect?

[MF]

I whacked a 352" 6x6 bull in 2003 using a 348 grain pb in front of 150 grains of pyrodex. The bullet broke the shoulder, one rib, went through the top of the heart, and rested up on the offside ribcage. The bullet had 78% weight retention and was mushroomed out to almost an inch diameter. The range was 200 yards. This is the only elk that I have killed so maybe I was just lucky that the pb performed the way it did as I have nothing else to compare it too. But if the opportunity arises again I will definitely use the pb's. My .02. Mike

[Busta]

MF,

I agree with you on the 348 grain PowerBelt, a much better choice.

The problem that I see with the PowerBelt is that all of the bullets have the same depth hollow point. The 348's and heavier ones have more solid lead behind the hollow point to carry the energy forward. The 295 grain and lighter bullets act like a varmint bullet at close range when contacting heavy bone and there is not enough base to hold the bullet together in my opinion.

Congrats on your bull!

[Buckskin]

Busta,

Its more likely that your buddy's bullets was poorly placed and yours wasn't.  I doubt that you can blame it on the bullet entirely. Aside from the fact that your slug had 135 more lead behind it, kind of a big factor don't you think???  Not really apples to apples.

[Busta]

Buckskin,

Not trying to compare apples to apples, the original post asked about 295 grain PowerBelts. In my opinion they are not a good choice for Elk sized game. For truely big game you need penetration not expansion. The Hollow pointed PowerBelt is designed for expansion and does it too well in my opinion.

[Redhawk1]

I'm shooting the 295gr PowerBelts in my Encore with two 50fr 777 Pellets and the 209 primer, which I'm going to try the new 209ML primers.

Just what kind of accuracy is everyone getting with them at 100 yds and what should I realistically expect?

I was getting 2 inch groups with the 295 gr. Powder belts and 2 triple7 pellets.  

[DanielWGriggs]

This is an informative thread with differing opinions. Given the opportunity I believe I will be using the 525gr minnie in front of 90 gr of 2F BP out of the .58 cal Huntsman for Elk or larger game.

[RicMic]

I could not get 295gr PowerBelts to group with either 90 gr Pyrodex or 90gr American Pioneer Powder.  Tried both CCI 209 primers and Remington ML 209.  Went to T/C black sabots and Hornady 45 300gr XTP, 3 inches for 5 shots at a 100yds.  Tough to load, but they go where ya want 'em to.

[JoeLansing]

've had 5 smokepoles, and only ever used 295gr HP powerbelts and 2 50gr pyrodex pellets.  My average shot is probably 20-25 yards.  Oh, and I've always used a smokepole even during centerfire rifle season.  

CVA Buckhorn $99   Tack driver! Shot 2 fall over deer in the neck.  Gave it away.

CVA Staghorn, $119 Same as above, shot 2 more in the neck same season as above.  Got excited and bought the Staghorn for the fiber sights. Sold for $100

CVA Hunterbolt Camo/Nickle $169 One deer in the neck.  Same season as above.  (Can you tell I'm excited about BP shooting?)  Not quite the tack driver as the cheapo CVA guns, but fine for 25 yard neck shooting and it's prettier.  I still have it. Got it at Sam's Club

CVA Optima,  Shot one deer.  Very early model.  Not accurate at all.  5" at 50 yards.  Hard to even get a PowerBelt to seat after the first shot.  Had a crap too tight barrel.  Sold to my brother for $50

NEF Huntsman,  2 more deer same season as above.  Only so-so accuracy.  Over the chrony first shot 1075, next 1250, next 1400, like that.   Made a nice vertical string, not good.  If you left the barrel very dirty you could get a steady 1650 or so out of it.  Opposite problem as the Optima.  Loose bore.  Sold it after I got tired of playing with it.

Mossberg Persuader 12ga 18.5" barrel home defense thing.  It's what I'm trying this year.  My average shot is 20 yards if that far, in the neck.  This thing with a Millet red dot scope on it groups about 2" @50 yards using plain Sluggers..  I'm lazy, I want to try something with the powder enclosed for a change...   -  Joe

[Sourdough]

Moose season for Muzzleloaders opens Tuesday.  I've got the 405gr Aerotip, and am thinking on using two 50gr triple seven pellets.  The last Moose I killed with a muzzleloader was using the 425gr Buffalo Bullet.  After shooting that bull I discovered that you can't load the lubed bullet when it's 15 below.  That's the reason I'm switching to the power belts.

[elk_chaser1]

Let hear the pros and cons of Powerbelts--295's.

Terminal effectiveness....
How about severe angle shots..
Pass throughs?

You guys like em' or not.

I personnaly have not had good performance with PB's on game.  Several years go, I almost lost a nice mule deer doe that I shot broadside at about 70 yds. with a 295 gr. HP PB.  Bullet entered behind the shoulder and blew up. Fragments everywhere and no exit.  Deer ran about 200 yds. and laid down in heavy brush.  Took several hours to find the deer.  They shoot o.k. in my Omega, but I wanted a more durable, more affordable, more accurate bullet, especially for elk.  Shoot a 460 gr. No Excuses conical now.  One bullet for both deer and elk!

[Sourdough]

Elkchaser 1:  That bullet did exacually what it was designed to do.  Hollowpoints are for small game, not mulies.  You should have been using the aerotip.  I use the aerotip for Caribou, and they do just fine.  Haven't got my Moose yet, but plan to shoot it with a 348gr powerbelt aerotip.  I'll let everyone know how they do when/if I drop a big bull.

[sduve]

For 2 years I used the 295's 'cause they shot good in my Encore. The lead is too soft and will I never use  or suggest them. They load really nice and shoot good. Performance on deer out to 100 yds over 2, 50 gr Pyro pellets was poor. I melted down 4 packs to cast into round balls for a .54 cal.

[gleason.chapman]

Spit,


My Theory:

My bullet being a solid all lead conical was able to penetrate the shoulder knuckle and continue through lungs and the top of the heart. His bullet with the hollow point so deep must have fragmented on the heavy bone and expended all the energy into the shoulder. The bullet must have lost so much mass that it was unable to penetrate into the chest cavity. Remember the shoulder ball and socket on a whitetail is around the size of a golf ball, on an Elk it is nearly baseball size and has probably around 5 times the mass. It is my opinion that a solid lead conical is a far better choice when hunting elk than a hollow pointed PowerBelt.

:wink:

Exact same thing happen to me last year on a very large whitetail.  I hit it in the shoulder.  PB do NOT penetrate. they "overexpand" on shoulder.  You need penetration, since you don't absolutely know where your going to hit on a big animal.  ANY bullet will kill behind the front shoulder, it is the bad hits that we want excellent penetration.  I am now using Nosler Partitions 300g HG (Hand Gun, Protected Point) using a Harvester Split Rib Sabot.  They go down as easy as a PB in both my Knight Disc and TC Encore.    I did a lot of testing on loads and penetration with different bullets and documented it here:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/bullets_penetration_tests_for_mu.htm

Chap Gleason, Virginia

[Greenhunter]

I tried powerbelts in my Encore and could not get a tight group. But what really concerned me was on my third load, I tipped the barrel downward and the bullet had dislodged from its plastic base and fell out of my barrel!
I decided then that I would not hunt with bullets that might fall out of my barrel so easily while actually hunting.  I will stick to my Barnes MZ bullets, they are accurate, they pass through the deer with regularity, and they don't' fall out of my gun barrel.