Author Topic: Question, question questions  (Read 783 times)

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Offline skip

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Question, question questions
« on: September 28, 2005, 10:00:15 AM »
It was my good fortune to purchase two higher end spring piston airguns.A Weirauch HW55 and a Feinwerkbau 124 Sport.
Both guns have not been fired for 10 years.
My first step was to fire each gun over a chronograph.
The next step was to call Beeman Precision I find out about new oils, Nope send then in to the tune of $60 to $80 on one and $90 to $110 on the other! This may be a nice revenue stream for Beeman.

I understand the problem with dieseling but there must have been a time when doing your own maintenance must have been O.K. since I have the Beeman oils. The Beeman's BC silicone oil and the Beeman's Spring cylinder oil seem to be O.K. but the Beeman Ultra Lube has a very strong acrid smell.

Both guns are within 12% of spec in the velocity department.
The big question is how do I maintain the guns wiyhout making Beeman richer?
Are the oils good?
What would be the proper oils that are in today's market?

Offline dave

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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 12:22:58 PM »
First, the 124- You don't need to oil it. The 124 has a synthetic seal, it doesn't need to be lubricated like a leather seal. You might want to consider giving the 124 a good going over before you shoot it much. The factory seals have a well deserved reputation for decaying into mush. Once that happens you start to get piston slam and damage to the compression chamber. What you need to do is get a quality replacement seal and spring. No sense opening it up to replace the seal and not put in a fresh spring.
The Hw55 most likely has a leather seal. Those seals do need to be kept moisturized with silicone for best performance. Just a drop or two through the port once in a while should do it. If it hasn't been used in years, put in two or three and leave the gun standing for a few days to allow the seal to soak up the oil.
If neither gun has been used for 10 years, you really need to look at the triggers also. When left for extended periods, especially if in a vertical position, lube tends to migrate to the trigger since its at the lowest point. After a while any oil or grease turns to glue and gums up the trigger mechanisms. The HWs Rekord trigger is known for the thick brown goop that was originally grease put there at the factory. The pistons on both guns most likely need a bit of moly lube on them too. If either one ever had lube on the piston, its turned to gunk by how and needs to be cleaned out.
Both guns are very easy to work on as long as you have some sort of spring compressor. Theres really not much in the way of moving parts, the biggest thing is getting the spring out. Once you've done that the rest is easy.
What sort of velocities did you get for each gun?
Look around this site for parts and lubes-
http://www.airguns.citymax.com/page/page/251327.htm
JM has the good stuff for both guns. Give him a call and he'll set you up with what you need.



Offline skip

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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 03:58:38 PM »
Thanks, All good info!
 
Factory spec's are w/ Beeman Silver Bear (7 Gr.)
Hw55 spec is 660 to 700 FPS
124 spec is 780 to 830 FPS
 
My data came from Roko Match 7.47 Gr.
All #'s  are after I ran them through a ballistics program to get the actual MV's  
HW55 was 567 fps 10 shot ave. w/ SD of 13.4
124 was 704 fps 9 shot ave. w/  SD of 5.7
Add in that the Ruko pellet is 6.7% heavyer the numbers come out to
HW55 605 fps & 124 is 751 adjusted to 7Gr. pellet.

Offline dave

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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 04:57:10 PM »
I'm not really sure just how you arrived at those velocity figures but a factory spec 124 should be shooting a 7.9 gr pellet in the 770-790 fps range, maybe a bit more depending on when it was made. Ballistic programs can be misleading when you don't know how a gun performs in the real world, especially since Beemans numbers were and still are notoriously inflated to boost sales. If the 124 is actually shooting a 7.6gr pellet at 704 fps, its time for a rebuild. Is that the actual observed velocity?
The HW 55 came from the factory in more than one state of tune. Some had springs that made about 600 fps with 7.9gr pellets, that was the soft tune that was intended mostly for target shooting. Others had a stronger spring that produced numbers in the high 600s with 7.9gr pellets for more sporting purposes. So, if 567 is the actual observed velocity, again, its time for it to be looked at. In this case a few drops of silicone oil in the chamber may rejuvenate the leather seal and bring the power back to normal, or it may need a new spring.



Offline skip

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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2005, 04:56:20 PM »
Thanks, Dave , all the info is super!
I will lube the 124 & recheck.
 
On the Hw55 i'll get a kit, make a spring compressor and have at it.
 
Gee a gun manufacturer that  pushes the truth to the outer limits.
They must have just loved that the general public could buy a good cronograph!
 
The powder burners up the number by 5%,or so, is that a good number to use for the pellet pushers?

Offline dave

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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2005, 05:44:58 PM »
There is no way of telling really how much a manufacturer is boosting their numbers other than actually checking with a chronograph. Some are pretty close, others are more than 250 fps high. The best way to see what a gun will really do is find someone who already has a similiar gun and get some real-world information.
You need to be careful with the lubes when rebuilding the 124. If theres lube in the compression chamber after assembly you'll get detonation, and with it abnormally high velocity figures. Spring lubricaton should be done with small amounts of spring tar, and a thin film of moly paste should be on the outside of the piston and seal skirt. Also, check the serial number on the 124. If its low, like 5000 or less, you may need to check the ID of the compression tube before ordering the new seal. Some early guns had slightly undersized tubes and require a smaller seal, which JM can provide.



Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2005, 01:58:52 PM »
Quote
There is no way of telling really how much a manufacturer is boosting their numbers other than actually checking with a chronograph.


So very true.  In talking with Tom Gaylord and Jim Chapman, both report that most air gun manufactures use the lightest weight pellets they can find for velocity testing.  In a few cases they use pellets that you or I are unable to purchase.  The only way I was ever able to come close to the stated 1,000 fps. form my daughter's Gamo 880 was to use lead free pellets(5.1 gr., .177 caliber).  Only thing is the blast had a metallic ring to it and sparks come out the barrel(I quit after three shots).  Of course if you own the company a few rifles get lost in testing so what, you got great velocity data.  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

Offline skip

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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2005, 05:30:30 PM »
Thanks boys!  
Real velvetys from the real world, sounds like a thread to me!