Author Topic: A good write up on the 45-70 by Randy Garrett  (Read 885 times)

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Offline Cottonwood

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A good write up on the 45-70 by Randy Garrett
« on: October 02, 2005, 12:39:48 PM »
Those that are in the know, are in the know on 45-70 loadings.

There are few things in the world of ballistics less well understood than the issues relating to comparative penetration. It is commonly believed that the faster one drives a solid bullet, the deeper the penetration. We see this all the time in the various attempts, via new calibers, to achieve higher velocity for improved performance on heavy game. The current rage among big bore shooters seems to be the 458 Lott, since it achieves a good 200-300 fps higher velocity than the 458 Winchester Magnum. It is claimed that the new 458 Lott is an improvement over the 458 Winchester Magnum since its higher velocity supposedly results in more lethal impact-effect and deeper penetration. This, it is claimed, is just the ticket for busting the heaviest game. Of course, the new 458 Lott also achieves greater kinetic energy as a result of its higher velocity, and this is also a convincing characteristic for those brave souls in pursuit of the heaviest game.

Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common-sense, repeatable penetration testing. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.

Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.

What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. This raises some interesting issues regarding the relationship between kinetic energy generation and impact-effect. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop. If the builders of the various 458 Magnum calibers would simply advocate driving the heaviest bullets their calibers can push to about 1500-1600 fps, the super-powerful magnums would produce penetration depth unobtainable with 500-grain solid bullets at any speed. A 650-700 grain 458 solid at 1550-fps from the magnum 458s would produce penetration that would clearly redefine the 458 Magnums. However such an increase in bullet weight would require faster twist barrels and would certainly bring howls of protest from those who purchased 458 Magnums previously, since those guns would require rebarreling in order to accommodate the heavier bullets. As a consequence of this, I don't think any of us should hold our breaths waiting for that kind of change to occur.

Fortunately for all of us who love the 45-70, it can be considered to be the deepest penetrating of the various 458 calibers. This is not due to any particular inherent superiority, but due to the 45-70s "inability" to achieve the kinds of speeds with heavy bullets that leads to decreases in penetration. The reasons why high impact speeds reduce penetration are not well understood. However, anyone who takes the time to run comparative penetration tests will find that those of us who pack a good 45-70 with heavy bullets need not take a back seat to any other 458 caliber, especially when the game is heavy and the penetration requirements are great.

Randy Garrett
www.GarrettCartridges.com

Now understand the very same bullets that Randy Garrett uses for his Garrett cartridges and even Buffalo Bore are from Cast Performance Bullet Company.

These can be loaded by you rather than spending BIG $$$$ for their loads.

Offline jason280

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A good write up on the 45-70 by Randy Garre
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2005, 02:24:00 PM »
Quote
These can be loaded by you rather than spending BIG $$$$ for their loads


This is the exact reason I started reloading.  I knew I could reload heavy .45-70 loads for a lot less than what the ammo makers were charging!
"Hey Peter, check out Channel 9!!"

Offline Badnews Bob

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A good write up on the 45-70 by Randy Garre
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2005, 03:40:58 PM »
I gots me some of them Cast Performance 420gr GCFPs and you can almost feel them things smack the berm a hundred yards away.

I like my big ole slow .45-70. :grin:
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline dodd3

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A good write up on the 45-70 by Randy Garre
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2005, 12:11:27 AM »
how true that is montanan here in australia i shot a big bull camel with the 45/70 using 528 grain pure lead bullet in front of 70 grains of  3f black powder 90 meter shot he went down like he was hit by a bolt of lightening. an other example is .58 cal muzzle loader 625grain mini bullet in front of 175 grains of 2f black powder at 1625 fps,muzzle energy of 3665 foot pounds. got full penetration through the skull of an asian water buffalo he was over a ton and a quarter in weight i still have the mini bullet it only lost 7 grains in weight.  
bernie :grin:
if its feral its in peril