I am a Fraud!

[Zeke Menuar]

I am a fraud. A wannabe.  A pretender of the highest order.  I really want to go deer and elk hunting.  I won’t be going this year, like last year and the year before.  I am not a new hunter per se.  I hunted with family members when in my teens.  They were usually sitting on a stump drinking Irish coffee while myself and the other kids chased the deer out so the grown-ups could shoot them.  My first deer, a pretty good sized Oregon blacktail was confiscated by my Uncle because I didn’t have his permission to take the shot(he was drunk and passed out under a tree) and I didn’t know how to gut it out.  His twisted drunken logic was if he did the work to gut out the deer, he got to keep it.  I hunted one year after that and refused to go later.  The two deer I shot I never saw, never got one venison steak, nothing.  

     I am now an avid shooter and gun collector with a 03 FFL.  I handload most of my ammo in 9 or 10 calibers?  I have 20 rifles?(not sure how many).  I have three purpose built hunting rifles, a M700 in 270, a Savage M99-R and an H&R Buffalo Classic.  A Enfield 30-06 is awaiting restoration and/or rechambering.  There is a 338 or 375 looming on the horizon when the slush fund gets big enough.  I practice at least once a month, sometimes twice.  I have a load for almost any occasion from bunnies to bears.

     While going through some old magazines in the garage I found an article about introducing people to hunting and bringing new people to the sport.  Sounds like a good thing.  In reality most seasoned hunters I have encountered don’t want to deal with a new hunter.  Case in point, I was invited to hunt with some family members this weekend.  At the last minute I got a phone call saying rather bluntly that my cousin didn’t want to “put up with a noobie”.  I am not a kid, I am a 42 year old man.  I have ten years of shooting knowledge behind me.  I am good with a rifle.  Very good .  I am not bragging.  I practice and work at it.  I am no stranger to the woods.  I can follow sign, read a map and trudge up and down deep dark canyons with the best of them.  If coyotes could talk, they would tell you that I take my time in a hurry and make the first shot count.  Most of the coyotes that get in my way aren’t around to tell about it.

      I have an intimate knowledge of some of the best hunting areas in the state of Oregon.  My failings are, I don’t have a pick-up to haul Bambi away and I have no idea how to gut out a deer properly.

      I am not one of the “guys”.  Some of the attitudes I have encountered are straight out of the high school rat pack clique mentality.  Last year it was the same thing.  A phone call and a apology.  Recently I joined the Oregon Hunters Association.  They have plenty of programs for kids, but nothing for a new grown-up hunter.  I work swing-shift so I cannot attend the monthly local chapter meetings.  The frustration has gotten to the point that I give up.  This is the last year I’ll be buying tags in the hope someone will allow me to tag along.  Bringing people to the sport sounds good.  But it takes a seasoned hunter to help the new guys along.  From where I sit, those seasoned hunters are few and far between.  Fortunately I don’t need a license to hunt pop cans.

This is my opinion, your opinion may vary.

ZM

[Dave in WV]

Zeke, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It's the wrong attitude to have not wanting to help a new guy. I wouldn't give up. Maybe you'll come across someone needing a hunting partner that's willing to show you the ropes. As for field dreeing a deer there are some good articles on how to do it. That's how I learned.

[Redhawk1]

I would suggest you get with other hunting groups and get in with people at local gun shops. I know of quit a few hunters that were self taught and are extremely knowledgeable and great hunters. It is ashame family does that to you. I would not give up, persistence pays. Advertise in your local paper for a hunting partner, there may be someone else in your same situation.

[NONYA]

Zeke you get in with the right group of people and you will have no problem finding a new hunting partner to show you the ropes,with your honesty you will be able to share your situation and let people know you are interested in learning from them.One of my favorite parts of hunting is taking out people new to the sport and helping them take thier first animals.Maybe you could join a trap shooting club or some other shooting sport,that would be a good start as far as meeting people who hunt on a regular basis.Take a look around your local sporting goods store for flyers or posters for local shooting or archery clubs.

[Land_Owner]

Does not read as if you were all that "new" to hunting if you take coyotes regularly, perhaps just new to deer, and practically anyone can hunt and kill a deer if they are where the deer wants to be.  Now gutting a deer is something that can be taught (and self-taught) or you can ruin one or two investigating for yourself.  No big deal if that happens.  

Why not go by yourself?  I do.  Regularly.  I am 52 this year and the first year I hunted, 13 years ago, I got "skunked" while everyone in the woods around me was shooting them up right and left.  I saw deer that first year, a lot of deer and right on top of me.   I didn't know how to hunt them and I had plopped down in a honey hole of deer.  They got a good look at me and I at them, then they haul tailed it into the rifles of the other hunters I guess.  I didn't shoot at all.  

I learned a lot that first year about what to and what not to do.  I read a lot too when I got home.  I was disappointed but more woods savey and the next year I had better equipment, greater self-confidence, and the rest they say is history.  

Persistence pays!  Stay after them and they will come.  One, two, three, four days in a row.  Nothing.  Go again on day five.  Stay ALL DAY.  Go too on days six, seven, and eight.  Unless you are hunting where the deer are EXTINCT, you will eventualy see a deer and connect.

Good luck, and when you are at the processors shed, you will meet others of like mind as you.

[iiibbb]

You need new friends (and forget your family... "cousin doesn't want to hunt with a noobie"... give me a break.

I went hunting for the first time last year with a collegue from work.  I joined his hunt club and we went out to the national forest opening day.  He led me to a spot and told me to sit there and not come get him until after 10am.  I got something the within 20 minutes after he left .  When I went and got him at 10 he showed me how to gut the one he got and we went back and did mine.  

I went out several more times that season on my own.

Basically... find a good hunt club or something and I'm sure you'll find some people who'd be happy to help you out and show you the ropes.  I just can't beleive everyone you know is a jerk... and if they are, you need to meet some new people.

Good luck!!!

[32WINSPL]

Well Zeke, your frustrated. I have an idea of what you mean. Two years ago I started deer hunting on my own. Prior experience was with friends or relatives and amounted to being put in a spot while a drive was conducted. Never saw a deer. Two years ago I go out on my own, second day a deer came by, perfect set up, broadside to at 30 yards. I shot and missed. No blood, bone or hair. Thought I found bone but it was wood splinters from the tree root I'd hit. I found the mushroomed Winchester Power Point on the forest floor. I still have it. Hunted 3 more days and nothing. Last year I hunted 7 days. Last day I had a shot at a deer at 40 yards. broadside, moving slowly. Missed, or a graze anyway, or maybe a fatal wound. Tiny bit of flesh and a small piece of hide at the shot sight. Tracked for 3 hours, went home for 1, tracked three more hours. Nothing, I never found the deer or any blood trail. Either I lost it or I hurt it only slightly. Disappointment for sure. I hope to hunt 10-12 days this year but I feel heavy the pressure(self applied mind you) of needing to make the kill. My confidence has been shaken and I can hear a small voice suggesting its time to try something else.....Mine is different then yours but I hear ya. You don't hear much of failures on these forums. Its usually big sucess stories, or maybe we haven't just found the honey hole yet? I would suggest you try it on your own before you pack 'er in. Oh, I don't know how to gut a deer either but I do have someone who is willing to show me if the time should ever come. Good luck to you. Keep shooting if it still gives you joy my bro.

[Land_Owner]

I forgot to mention that I was extremely fortunate in seeking the advice of the Regional Wildlife Biologist, a State employee, who introduced me to 8 biologists under his leadership.  Each of them were as passionate about hunting as I have become.  They showed me how to gut a deer, where to take it for processing, and introduced me (at that time when they were active) to multiple deer check-in stations where game was weighed, aged, and sexed for State record purposes.  I recommend that you start with the State biologist, if convenient.  

...and don't forget about the two guys that were brand new to hunting.  One went one way the other the opposite way.  Not long after, the first guys sees the bushes shaking and following the shot finds that he has shot his buddy.  He takes him to the hospital, and asks if he will be OK, to which the doc replies "He would have had a better chance if you hadn't gutted him first." :wink:

[Raging480]

As it turns out, my two best hunting buddies are guys who I've met through internet sites like this one.  But I still do go out and hunt on my own sometimes.
Don't give up, and if you ever find yourself in upstate NY, fire me off an e-mail, I'll go hunting with ya!

[Jim D]

Zeke, I have hunted for years by myself. Some years I come home with a deer some I don't. The thing for me is that I am in the outdoors. I can sit in a rock pile or behind trees for hours and not see any game and I will still be happy at the end of the season even if I did not shoot a deer. I just enjoy being in the great outdoors. You can find out how to field dress a deer just by going on the internet. I hope that you don't really let your situation stop you from getting out.----------Jim D.

[rockbilly]

:cry: Zeke, I would be willing to bet there is someone you know who has experience and would like to go with you.  Look at some of the older men you know that have hunting experience, one of them may be looking for an opportunity to go.  Talk to some of the folks at the range, or some of the folks you work wit.  Be up front and tell them you "may" need some help field dressing the game.

Most everything you need to know about field dressing a deer can be found in books or on-line.  If you have ever dressed a rabbit then you can field dress a deer.  If you truly want to hunt, then go.  Field dressing a deer is no major task, and if you screw up, who is to know?

Good luck, I'm sure you will find a hunting partner if you truly look.      

[beemanbeme]

Zeke, you have gotten some really good advise in here.  I especially like the advise to tell your kinfolks to piss up a rope.  
Spend some time in the woods.  You don't have to be hunting, just roaming around.  Learning how to get around.  Try to put some of the stuff you've read into practice without the pressure of actually hunting.  Sit in a tree stand for a while and just watch deer moving around.  Go out after a nice skiff of snow has fallen and follow some of the tracks you'll see.  I've often said that the more time I get to spend in the woods before hunting season, the luckier I seem to get.
Over the years, I have hunted quite a bit by myself.  That way you can set your own pace.  Do what you want to do: "hey, I can kill a deer anytime; I don't get to watch beavers build a dam very often....."  See what I mean?  I would tell you tho, if you hunt by yourself, leave a very detailed note telling where you're gonna be and all the other detes in your vehicle.  Also, give your wife or sig other the same info.  (by the way, get you one of those 6x8 plastic tarps and haul your deer in the trunk of your car)
I actually like the idea of an ad in the paper very much.  I answered a similar ad one time in Memphis from a guy that wanted a fishing pal.  He had the equipment, he had read everything there was to read about fishing, he had just never gone.  He was a quick learner and when I left Memphis, he was running a tourny rigged Ranger and holding his own in the local tournies.
For my own personal taste, I'd much rather try to help a guy that tell's me he is dumber than rocks than some self-styled hot-shot that knows it all.  
Regarding dressing a deer:  Go down to your local packing house, especially if you have one that processes game, and ask to watch.  There's always folks that bring in deer just like they hit the ground and want the butchers to do it all.  Who knows, maybe, just maybe, if you're really, really polite they'll let you pull the guts out of one yourself.   :lol:

[Cottonwood]

Zeke

It is really too bad, you have family members like this.  Here is one site for Gutting Deer 101

Trailing Wounded Deer

I'm looking forward to this years hunting season.  My wifes brother is 38 and never, I mean never has been hunting for anything other than a mouse.  He lived in California, and had people he knew that hunted but never took the time to want to help him, and take him along.

Well the week-end of Oct 29/30 he will be along with my son and I, on a Mule deer hunt in eastern Montana.  And if we don't tag out, he will be along on many more hunts as well.

I get a real joy in helping others to learn this activity.

Its too bad you don't live closer, cuz its no fun hunting by your self.

[Rummer]

Zeke,

If you go to your local walmart (sporting goods section) or gander mountain you will probably be a ble to find a book called "Dressing and Cooking Wild Game".  There are full color, step by step instructions for dressing, skinning and butchering.  There are also recipes.  It is an inexpensive and useful reference.

Best of luck.
Rummer

[Idaho_Hick]

Hey Zeke, everythings easy once you know how.

I grew up with a single mom who did not hunt.  I had read somewhere not to get water on meat, so my first deer tasted like hair.  Very, Very bad, but I lived and so did my mother who tried everything anybody suggested to make it taste less "gamey".  I felt bad after my little butchering experiment and didn't shoot anything for several years.  Then my friends basically shamed me into shooting something and the meat is finally starting to taste better after a few years practice.  Your first deer is not going to be perfect, but neither is your fifth.  Just roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty.  Then wrap it up in a tarp, throw it in your trunk, take it home and hose it down as thoroughly and as soon as possible.  Water does not hurt anything, so use lots and try to get every hair off.  Then take it to the processor or if you're  really brave, cut it up yourself.  I know it seems intimidating, but I'm sure a lot of things that you do well now were intimidating before you learned.  How to kiss a girl, how to drive, how to reload.  I'm sure you're first attempts at these things were not perfect, and neither will your first butchering job.  But really, it is simple once youve done it a few times.  Other than that your woodsmanship sounds equal to the task and I like hunting better alone anyway.  Seems like when I go out with someone else, we spend half our time trying to find one another.  Best of luck and apologies if I sound preachy.

[Miller]

Zeke, believe me you are in the majority, most people don't score when they hunt!  JD I believe had  it right, it isn't about always being successful, it's about being out there.  My father, due to a serious accident couldn't take me/ go with me hunting from the time I was a junior in high school.  I learned by reading and picking everyone's brain about how to be successful, and low an behold I made myself a good deer hunter.  I also became very adept at analyzing why I wasn't successful.  I'm 45 years old now and I'm still am searching for my first elk.  I'm getting closer but after 5 years of hunting it's elk 5 Miller 0.  Like I said before read, ask questions on these forums, and be patient and persistent.  If it was easy they'd call it killing and not hunting.  Lastly the worst day of hunting is always better than the best day of work.  Don't give up!

[elmer]

Zeke,

I can sure empathize with you. I grew up on a farm, but was only allowed to hunt rabbits and squirrels. I moved to the city to work and didn't meet anybody that hunted. It wasn't until I was 50 yoa that I hunted anything larger than a rabbit. Here in Texas unless you own land, know someone that owns land or have a lease you can forget it. Landowners aren't real keen to having someone from Dallas hunting their property and particularly a rookie.

I finally found a hunting club that during off season has organized hog hunts that are open to non-members. They have the stands, ATV's, experience, and are novice friendly. After a couple hunts there and a couple at another hunting ranch I am feeling more comfortable. Do I think I'm ready to strike out on my own and do real hunting? No, but I can still enjoy time in the woods, and the campfire comraderie while I learn. You may want to look for something like this in your area. It's not deer hunting, but it's good practice (not to mention tasty).

[wijim]

i gotta say...im really pissed at the people who you've hunted with in the past.  they are poor representitives of outdoor sports.  and they are in my belief in the minority.  heck look here you've had offers to hunt with complete strangers just on this board.  

im extremely glad that you still have the desire to get into hunting even after your crappy experiences.

on gutting a deer (how i do it with a basic buck knife):

slit the hide (without getting into the cavity yet) from the belly up to the sternum while kneeling on the deers haunches to hold his legs wide open.

if it a buck slice all the way down the hide to the (censored word).  peel the hide back on both sides about three inches..it will peel easily you may wanna slice fat to make it even easier.  if its a doe slice through and between the udder.

next i open the cavity.  do not plunge your knife in as you will make a stinky mess.  grab the (censored word) with one hand and pull it back as you slice the skin flap down....i dont cut it off at this point i leave it drapped to his tail.  then insert the tip of your knife in the opening  where you slice his (censored word) down. with the fingers of your other hand and blade pointed up (the back of the blade should ride between your forefinger and middle finger of your non cutting hand (palm up) as you use that hand as a guide and depth guage.  just have your knife in and ride that hand with the knife as you guide it up to the sternum taking care not to open the intestines and stomach.

now you should have a slit from the lower belly to the sternum and when pulled open you should see the stomach and pile of intestines in the deer and the seperation at the sternum od the diaphragm muscle.  pull open the rib cage with one hand and cut the diaphragm as far cack as you can reach and see you may have to hold the stomach and liver to the side as you do this.  do it one side at a time.  now that that is free....reach up into the sternum and feel for the windpipe...it will be the tube like corrugated feeling cartilige going furtherst up into the neck.  if you cant get your hand up that far....cut through the bottom of the touch cartlige at the bottom of the sternum...saw that open....you will now have more room.

on does and young bucks you can try to grip that windpipe and esophugus and tear through it with a thumb nail and pull it down as you tear it.  if you cant get it that way...slip other hand in carefully guiding knife blade away from your other hand that is gripping that win pipe.  cut off the wind pipe and esophagus.  pull that down like a zipper and the heart, lungs and early part of the stomache will be freed.

next tilt deer on its side and hold open cavity and you dump and pull out stomach and entrails you will have to slice through a bit of viscera to free it and roill all the guts out until all you have is a ssection of intestine connected to the deer and the gut pile.  you'll know when you are there cuz the kidneys will be out they are shiny and silvery.

this is the tricky part.  slice the (censored word) down and scrotum all the way down.....(i dont slice it off yet....but use it to aim.....i reach into the cavity between the legs and push on the bladder hard with my hand so he pees all the urine out of the bladder) then i remove the (censored word) and testicles srotum and all.  if you got a doe...you got no aiming feature...lol...but you can still make her pee out the rest of the urine.

now slice the meat of the hind quarters to get them open even further right down to the pelvic bone.

i dont open that pelvis but some use a hatchet and crack it open.  

i cut on both sides of the anus right to the tail till the knife hits bone.  then i circlke the blade under and over the anus taking care not to perferate or cut open the bowel, colon or lower intestine  i grip the last bit of lower intestine and pull hard...it takes some efffort at this part....if you feel like you are going to rip that part of the intestine...cut that butthole out some more...it should give then slip right out.....then flip that deer all gutless over on its stomach to get the big globs and clots of blood out.  and if its gonna be in your truck awhile ...take a section of stick to prop inside that cavity so the air can cool it quickly.  

you are done.

the first deer you gut by yourself will take twice as long to do as it took to read this.  and you'll have blood up to your shoulders...lol

but by #3.....it'll take under ten minutes. and just you hands or latex gloves (which i use every time) will be messy a bit.

hope you can understand this...i am not always clear in my written communication skills.

[Rock_Steady]

other than the expert hunter thing.  I have been a country boy for alot of years - I'm 30 - but was never a part of the good old boy club.  Never went deer hunting.  I went out about 2 years ago, got myself a .30-30, some warm clothes, and a treestand, and went out to the farm to sit.  Got my first deer on opening day, an 8 pt.  I had no idea how to field dress it, but I got my printed out instructions (from the internet), sat them down next to me and that deer, and had at it.  Sure I didn't do it exactly right, but heck, it ain't much different from small game, just bigger.  I got it done, the hard way, and learned a little.  I'm still enjoying that deer today, as a small but nice rack on the wall and some chili meat still in the freezer.  Don't give up.  I met up with a few friends later that year to stalk-hunt and while we didn't get anything, it was still a great time.  Don't give up.  Get out and have some fun.  Heck, sometimes being out in the woods without anyone else to bother you is reason enough to go hunting.   :grin:

[Land_Owner]

elmer,

go to www.texasboars.com, register there, introduce yourself, and someone will more than likely give you a better introduction to texas hog hunting than you have had to date.  there are a lot of great hog hunting opportunities in texas.  BTW, wild hogs can carry diseases that are transmittable to humans.  be careful when you get one or two.  use precautions.

[elmer]

Land_Owner

Thanks for the suggestion. The owner of the ranch with the hunting club I was talking about is on www.texasboars.com and that may be where I found them (http://www.reedfamilyranch.com/).