Author Topic: Need advice for coyote barrell (Read 1378 times)

pixeldoctor · « **on:** October 04, 2005, 04:53:47 PM »

Hello again... Purchased my first encore last week, went with the 209/50 SS... Got a great deal on it. My friend who ownes the gun shop where I bought the rifle here in Iowa stated that I can still turn the rifle into a pistol even though it was purchased as a rifle. Anyone know different? Also I am looking for a recommendation for a coyote barrell, I was thinking about the 7mm-.08 what do yall think? Oh also, do I need a new fore end to go with the rifle barrell or does the on for the 209/50 work. If I do need one where can I buy one?
Thanks,
Jeff

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 04, 2005, 05:15:14 PM »

Your rifle to pistol is an age old question. You should consult you local laws. I have don't it, but the ones I switched back and forth were bought as pistol frames. With the forearms, different barrels take different forearms. Muzzleloader, tapered rifle barrel, heavy barrel and shotgun barrels all take different forearms. As for as a coyote barrel, I use a 22-250 and it is a tack driver at 200 yards.

Catfish · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:21:45 AM »

You will need a different forearm, one without a grove for the ram rod. As for a 7-08, it would not be my first choice for coyote, but it would be a good choice if it were to double as a deer rifle.

Buckskin · « **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:17:17 AM »

I would go ahead and make it into a pistol. As long as you don't do something stupid with it you won't get any slack for it. No different than even though its not registered as a pistol its no different than you buying a used pistol, not registered either. My opinion only.

As for the yote gun, 7-08 is a great caliber but a bit much for yotes, unless you have no use for the hide. Saying that most of the yotes that I have killed have been with either a slug gun or my 300 RUM. But I would recommend a 204. Very fun flat shooting varmint whapper.

iiibbb · « **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2005, 06:33:04 AM »

Rifle --> pistol depends on the state. In California probably a no-no. Many other states probalbly not a problem.

It is of course a hot-button issue. I have a post about it you can search on where I really tried to find as much materials about it as possible. Take it for what it's worth, but I went so far as to contact the lawyer that represented TC in their supreme court case. He flat-out told me there is no _federal_ issue with it.

But that case dealt with the contender... and going from pistol --> rifle --> pistol.

Some people read it as a separate issue, and say that if there is not an explicit case or permission it is not allowed. I don't read it that way. My opinion is that if it were illegal, they'd have to be making seperate pistol & rifle frames that would only allow the conversion to go one way, and you'd have to modify the rifle frame to accept pistol barrels.

But it's a touchy subject... that's for sure.

The only way to be absolutely sure is to get a letter for the DOJ or ATF.

The only thing for sure is never, never, never put a < 16" barrel on a frame with a shoulder stock attached.

Keith L · « **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2005, 11:19:52 AM »

While state laws may come into play as well, the major problem comes in how the firearm is viewed by BATF. And while you may never have trouble with it, you may. I was just reading on eBay about a conversion from 10/22 to a pistol that the seller told me in an email is completely legal and he has a letter from BATF that makes it so I need to have something like the court decision that TC has allowing the change from pistol to rifle. If you become the test case you are in for the hassle of a lifetime!

iiibbb · « **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2005, 11:41:37 AM »

Quote from: Keith L

While state laws may come into play as well, the major problem comes in how the firearm is viewed by BATF. And while you may never have trouble with it, you may. I was just reading on eBay about a conversion from 10/22 to a pistol that the seller told me in an email is completely legal and he has a letter from BATF that makes it so I need to have something like the court decision that TC has allowing the change from pistol to rifle. If you become the test case you are in for the hassle of a lifetime!

My only question is if it were illegal and the ATF had such a problem with it... why haven't they brought the hammer down on Thompson Center? An individual is small potatos compared to a supplier.

poncaguy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2005, 11:47:14 AM »

243 would be good, wouldn't worry about rifle to pistol thing.........

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2005, 12:50:09 PM »

Quote from: iiibbb

Quote from: Keith L
While state laws may come into play as well, the major problem comes in how the firearm is viewed by BATF. And while you may never have trouble with it, you may. I was just reading on eBay about a conversion from 10/22 to a pistol that the seller told me in an email is completely legal and he has a letter from BATF that makes it so I need to have something like the court decision that TC has allowing the change from pistol to rifle. If you become the test case you are in for the hassle of a lifetime!

My only question is if it were illegal and the ATF had such a problem with it... why haven't they brought the hammer down on Thompson Center? An individual is small potatos compared to a supplier.

They did and came up with the language in a Supreme Court decision that established the pistol to rifle interchangability. It didn't discuss the other way.

You guys can do what you want to. I don't want Bubba as a roomie with ideas for me that I never had. Until I know something different I will assume that this exchange is off limits.

iiibbb · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2005, 01:54:53 PM »

Quote from: Keith L

Quote from: iiibbb
Quote from: Keith L
While state laws may come into play as well, the major problem comes in how the firearm is viewed by BATF. And while you may never have trouble with it, you may. I was just reading on eBay about a conversion from 10/22 to a pistol that the seller told me in an email is completely legal and he has a letter from BATF that makes it so I need to have something like the court decision that TC has allowing the change from pistol to rifle. If you become the test case you are in for the hassle of a lifetime!

My only question is if it were illegal and the ATF had such a problem with it... why haven't they brought the hammer down on Thompson Center? An individual is small potatos compared to a supplier.

They did and came up with the language in a Supreme Court decision that established the pistol to rifle interchangability. It didn't discuss the other way.

You guys can do what you want to. I don't want Bubba as a roomie with ideas for me that I never had. Until I know something different I will assume that this exchange is off limits.

But that was when you had no choice but buy a Contender in pistol form first... and then convert it with the carbine kit. Encore didn't exist back then.

The way the decisions are written it pretty much says don't mate a rifle stock with a pistol barrel. It isn't written that you can only convert pistol frames.

How can you insist that the language must be explicit about pistol --> rifle --> pistol, but not rifle --> pistol --> rifle... but then not care that the decision only covers Contenders.

By your logic it isn't legal to convert an Encore at all because the decision was for Contenders.

I'm not trying to be confrontational... but I'm trying to understand why some people are so emphatic about it.

If it were bad to do it with Encores, the ATF would put another hammer down on the fact that you can now start a TC's life as a rifle and convert it to a pistol... and if this were really an issue TC would have to manufacture frames so that rifle frames could not use pistol barrels without modification.

I basically think the cases were about the TC system... not about configuration.

Keith L · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2005, 02:38:41 PM »

Do what you want to do. You will anyway.

Buckskin · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2005, 11:05:27 AM »

Unless you are buying as rifles and selling as pistols, I don't think anyone will hassle you.

pixeldoctor · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2005, 01:50:33 PM »

Keith L... How can you say that " Do what you wan you will anyway"? I would not take the time to post if I was not going to heed your advice... I don't think that was a fair assumption on your part!
Jeff

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2005, 01:38:47 AM »

Read the thread. My response was to the folks that want to argue about the leagality of changing rifles to pistols. If your weren't one then the response wasn't to you. If you were then it fits.

bubba · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2005, 02:32:26 PM »

Gee thanks Keith Now you hurt my feelings not wanting me for a room mate. I know in NY if you have a pistol permit, you can do the conversion, but, you have to register it as a handgun along with every individual barrel.

Keith L · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2005, 02:44:45 PM »

Once again, while New York has state laws that need to be complied with unless New York became a different country while I wasn't looking your state laws don't trump Federal laws. But once again, do what you want to. I choose not to be the test case, but if you want to risk it go for it. I hope you never have to find out if you are right or if I am. If it turns out that I am you will have some prison time to work things out, and your roomie will not likely be pleasant. That was the bubba I was referring to.

oliverstacy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2005, 06:08:58 PM »

With all that was said about everything and everybody...I think there was a question about a barrel for Coyote's.

I purchased an Encore as a M209x50 and then did the next logical thing and started to add barrels.

First one added was a 26" 220 Swift bull barrel from Cabela's...I belive this is a Cabela's exclusive (according to the catalog). I purchased mine at the store in Dundee, MI. Mounted a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x AO and I'm quite happy about the combo. So far it seems to like the 50 gr V-Max from Hornady loaded in front of 41.5 grains of H414. Shot 4 of the five into my best group of .361" at 100 yards...the fifth was not close. I believe I was trying to hard at that point.

Second barrel added was a Custom Shop 24" 375 Winchester barrel. Just mounted a scope on it the other week and haven't had a chance to get to the range with it. My front sight was too tall and I couldn't get it higher than 4" low at 50 yards. Called T/C and they sent out shorter front blades and will install one someday. Decided to mount a scope on the barrel and it is quite handy. Going to do some walking with it this fall and surely surprise some deer with it if I get a chance. I can't believe how light this combo is, much better than I could have hoped.

Hope all can play nice and all I would do about the legality issues is call the local sheriff's department and ask...I'm assuming that is part of their job.

Josh

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2005, 10:32:45 PM »

Quote

Hope all can play nice and all I would do about the legality issues is call the local sheriff's department and ask...I'm assuming that is part of their job.

I see it is time to give up. Your local sheriff is not likely to know anything but the bare minimum about federal firearms regulations. And while you are defending your freedom in federal court the fact you called them will be small comfort.

Again, do what you want to. I am now done. This is not worth the trouble.

Buckskin · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2005, 05:17:02 AM »

Ok so the sherriff doesn't know if its legal either?? Do you really think they are going to throw someone in prison for this issue??? I really doubt it. Hey Keith do what you want to.

iiibbb · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2005, 05:23:50 AM »

Well I just wrote my local ATF office and I'll post the letter and response when they reply.

Keith L · « **Reply #20 on:** October 12, 2005, 02:33:50 PM »

Quote from: Buckskin

Ok so the sherriff doesn't know if its legal either?? Do you really think they are going to throw someone in prison for this issue??? I really doubt it. Hey Keith do what you want to.

It won't be the locals friend. They are to busy with local crime. If caught the test case will be brought by the feds.

Until there is case law there will be a question. Until then it is one person's opinion.

poncaguy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2005, 03:10:19 PM »

I wouldn't stir up the bee's nest myself............. :wink:

Buckskin · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2005, 07:16:32 AM »

So how many Feds have you seen walking around where you hunt or shoot for that matter?? Unless there is reason for them to be watching you, there won't be any trouble. I think they have bigger fish to fry these days than a guy with the wrong stock on his frame.

TCAS · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2005, 03:14:53 PM »

22k hornet
22 hornet
17 mach iv
221 fireball

all good choices for coyote. Rifles all the way.

Tcas