Range Report 45-70 300gr reloads

[mattparliament]

Hello all, went to the range the other day to fiddle with my 45-70 with the 32" BC barrel.  This is a 1" grid and here's what I got:



This will be my elk load for this weekend.  The Hodgdon manual says that this load is 2424 fps from a 24" barrel, I really need to get a chrony because at 100 yards it is only about 1/2" higher for the center of the group.  I'm making an educated guess that this load is around 2500 fps.  Good enough for elk?

[Mac11700]

Yor 200 yard accuracy is really good(good shooting by the way)..but I don't know if that Hornady 300 grain hollow point is up to the task...I would be more inclined to go with a Nosler partition,or the heavier North Fork bullet myself...

Mac

[MtJerry]

Nice shooting Matt ... glad to see that BC is working for you.

No offense to Mac  :wink: , but I'd stay with the 300gr. Hornady ... at 200 yards it is up to the task.

[mattparliament]

this load has been used on whitetails with devestating results out to 300 yards with a large exit.  I'm not too concerned about the performance of this bullet although I know and elk is WAY heavier/thicker, time will tell...

[quickdtoo]

Matt, that's some real inpressive shooting, but I think Mac is right about the bullet's performance at that speed. The Hornady 6th shows a max load for it in the .458 Win mag as 2100fps, but they show both 350gr bullets at 2500fps, so it's not the rifles capability, but the bullet's limitation. I would recommend going to the 350gr bullets or the Nosler partition, they'll hold together at that velocity where the Hornady will probably be explosive. And FWIW, Hornady doesn't show the 300gr in the 45-70 Ruger #1 load data, just the 350gr and 500gr. They show the 300gr in the 450 Marlin with a max of 2200fps. Dunno why the 100fps difference tween the 450 Marlin and 458 Win mag. Maybe a call or email to Hornady would answer the question for sure. Another non-premium 300gr to consider would be the Speer 300gr HP Uni-cor, although the hollow point is just a dimple and not a true HP.

Good shooting!!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=930537

[MtJerry]

although the hollow point is just a dimple and not a true HP.

Just as the Hornady is ... trust me ... it's up to the task.

[quickdtoo]

Jerry, have ya shot one at game at that speed to find out? I don't think I would trust it on elk at that velocity if Hornday doesn't think it's up to the task going by their load data. I certainly wouldn't just try it to find out without contacting Hornady first since there is no load data for it at that velocity. A free call or an email is all it will take, wouldn't want to ruin a hunt due to lack of knowledge when it's there for the taking.... :wink:

http://hornady.com/contact_us.php

[Mac11700]

although the hollow point is just a dimple and not a true HP.

Just as the Hornady is ... trust me ... it's up to the task.

No-offence to you..I sincerly doubt that it is up to the task..Elk aren't whitetails...and that's what the 300 grain Hornady is rated for...light thin skinned animals...not something as large and as tough as Elk can be..get a bad hit on an elk...and it's a long way to the vitals on them.......it just isn't worth it..the 300 grain Noslers will do the job..and do it well...so to will the 350 JSP's...but the beauty of the Noslers is they will usually fly to the same POI as the other 300 grainers...at least in 26" barrels down to 18-1/2" barrels..

Mac

[MtJerry]

The 300gr. HP (.458dia) is an "Interlock" design.

Here is a nice picture and description from Weatherby's site:



Read what Midway uses for their advertizement:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=699223

The hornady SST is an advancement of the Interlock design.  They simply added a polymer tip to advance the expansion in smaller caliber rifle bullets.

From their product guide:

http://www.hornady.com/media/SST_Bullets.pdf

In short, a 300 gr. solid lead core, jacketed bullet at that speed WILL do the job out to 300 yards easily ... IF, and I mean IF ... the shot is accurately placed.

Elk are tough critters, and in my humble opinion, the "failure" attributed to must bullets are actually an inaccurate shot.  That also is a long-debated topis and there is no sense in beating that dead horse ...

Matt has demonstrated that at 200 yards he can make that shot VERY accurately ... can he can do it again?  That's up to Matt ... not the bullet.  

The 300gr. Hornady is up to the task if he is.

No effense taken on my part guys, as I hope there is none on yours as well.  :wink:   I enjoy lively educational conversation  :lol:

[quickdtoo]

Read the reviews at Midway, they all indicate it's a great deer bullet, but it wasn't good on bear which I would consider much closer to an elk than a deer in toughness....

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductreview.exe/GetReviews?productid=699223

It would probably work well on elk at 200yds or a bit further with the right shot placement when starting out at 2500fps, but any shot closer may not have a happy ending.  

[Mac11700]

From my Hornady manual..

Excellent accuracy and good uniformity were obtained with our rifle using IMR 4198/IMR 30331..The 300 grain Hollow point makes a good choice on deer while the 350 gain round nose is a excellent choice for anything from BlackBear to Moose...

My best advise is call Hornady and ask them...

Elk are tough critters, and in my humble opinion, the "failure" attributed to must bullets are actually an inaccurate shot

How would you know this..if you weren't there...?These bullets aren't rated for elk...

Mac

[MtJerry]

Sigh .... I guess we agree to disagree ... that's ok.

Good luck Matt ... be sure to post pictures of your success ...  

[Cottonwood]

Here is a pic of a free ranging bison that was taken at 30 yards, using this very same bullet in a factory loading shot from a Marlin GG.

Here is a picture of the recovered bullet. I was using Federal ammunition with 300 grn Sierra Pro Hunter HP FN in 45/70. The weight of my recovered bullet is 196.5 grn. Went in behind the left sholder and was just barely against the hide on the right side.

For what its worth, personally I wouldn't use the 300-gr JHP on elk or bison.

[quickdtoo]

Jon, the bullet in question is the Hornady, not the Sierra, although there may not be much difference in terminal performance. :wink:

[mattparliament]

weeelllllll crap, called up hornady about this bullet, took all of a minute to get the answer I was looking for.  The 300 grain hollow point was designed for trapdoor rifles and velocities of 1900fps-2100 fps.  I asked specifically if it would be good for elk and got a definite "NO"   It's a good thing my office is 1 block away from the sporting good store.  Looks like I'll load some up tonight and hit the range tomorrow.  This is not my style, I am usually over-prepared when it comes to doing this stuff in a timely manner.  I guess I can blame my own ignorance on my bullet choice.  That's what I get for moving to elk country.  Are we in agreement on the Nosler's?  We've got about 2 hours before I go to the store.  I'll let you know how it turns out, best case will be another tight group with the new lead up front at the same height.  Thanks guys!

[quickdtoo]

Matt, the Nosler will perform at impact velocities from 800fps to as high as it can be pushed in a 45-70. I get excellent accuracy with 56.2grs H4198 in both the 22" and 32" barrels, but velocity at just over 2400fps doesn't increase much over the 22" barrel. I think H4895 would be a better choice in the longer BC barrel.

In the 5th Edition of the Nosler manual, Dave Scovill wrote that he used the 300gr NP at 2356fps on a bull elk at just under 150yds and a mulie at 197yds, both shot once thru the lungs.

[mattparliament]

what do you guys think of the Barnes X-Bullets?

[quickdtoo]

I can't help ya much there, I've not used it. It would seem to be a good bullet at faster velocities, but I've read of a lot of hunters that had them fail to expand on lung shots where heavy bone wasn't hit, the bullet penciled completely thru the animal with no apparent upset. That's the nice thing about the NP, it's gonna expand regardless of the velocity at any sane hunting range, yet still penetrate due to the solid rear section.

[Cottonwood]

Now I see you live in Helena...

Well look at this data http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

Use a heavier bullet, and note that all data obtained from a 22" barrel here.  I most assuredly would not use a JHP bullet design for large game but a JSP instead.

In a jacketed bullet with the 45-70 - 45-90 A "Remington JSP flat nose" with a Meplat of .320.

Here is my load that I'm using in a 32" barrel'd Remington Rolling Block 45-90.  35.4 gr - AA 5744 - This is a load I worked up with Western Powder in Miles City, Mt. who now makes Accurate Arms Powder. because there is not printed data for it in the obsolete cartridge area for the 45-90 loadings.

They do list loadings for the 45-70 24" barrel, and the 45-120 30" barrel for the SPR 400 JFN so.... I called and we worked it out  :lol:

This load in a 24" barrel is 1551 fps, so I don't know what I'm getting in a 32" barrel with it as I have not chrono'd it, but I do know that it is dead bang accurate and hits with awesome authority.

[MtJerry]

weeelllllll crap, called up hornady about this bullet, took all of a minute to get the answer I was looking for.  The 300 grain hollow point was designed for trapdoor rifles and velocities of 1900fps-2100 fps.  I asked specifically if it would be good for elk and got a definite "NO"  

Hmmmm ... I guess I got egg on my face ...

[quickdtoo]

We still love ya, Jerry!!! :grin: