Message From The Texas State Rifle General Counsel

[rockbilly]

:shock: The following was taken from the March/April issue of the "TSRA Sportsman," offical Journal of the Texas State Rifle Association.

For the purpose of subsection (b)(3) of the Texas Penal Code, Sec. 46.15(i) that reads, “a person is presumed (emphasis added) to be traveling if the person is…” Five conditions follow.  Some in law enforcement have questioned whether this change was a prohibition that must be raised by the defense during any prosecution brought under Penal Code 46.02, Unlawful Carrying of Weapons.  TSRA believes the “presumed to be traveling” language is, and was intended as a prohibition against arrest.  The sponsors of this legislation agree.

However, there are some district attorneys around the state who are taking the position that is  a legal presumption that, if and when raised at trail of an accused charged with possession of an unlawful concealed weapon as a defense, the prosecution may rebut and obtain a conviction provided they have admissible evidence to disprove traveling.  The following is a quote from a Tarrant County district attorney’s office policy statement issued February 15, 2006>

“A trip to the grocery store with plans to return home does not constitute traveling.  A drive around the neighborhood to see if any friends are hanging out on the street corners does not constitute traveling.  A drive to work does not constitute traveling.  Statistically only a very small percentage of drivers on the street at any time are engaged in traveling.  What the law does is presume that they are traveling, nonetheless.”

“We will file UCW, Unlawful Possession of a Firearm by a felon and other gun cases provided the report provides some affirmative evidence that can be used at trail to rebut the travel defense.  In routine traffic stops, officers should early ask where the driver is going.  Any other relevant information that can be developed should be noted in the report.”
It is plain to see that traffic officers are being asked to “interview” a driver on routine stops – this could be before or after you are asked if you have a handgun in the vehicle – so that your reply can be noted in their report.  Non-CHL holders electing to travel with a handgun in their vehicle need to be careful.  If stopped, furnish the requested identification, usually your photo ID driver’s license and your insurance card, and DO NOT FURNISH ANY OTHER INFORMATION.  DO NOT CONSENT TO A SERCH OF YOUR VEHICLE WITHOUT A WARRANT. If asked where you are going or where you have been, you should politely respond “Officer, my attorney has advised that the information you need is all on that driver’s license.” You may receive some kind of traffic citation, but that is better than being placed under arrest, having your handgun confiscated, car towed and having to make bond and court appearances after being charged under P.C. 46.02 for being in possession of an unlawful concealed weapon.

[williamlayton]

I am at a loss here, perhaps my understanding of the purpose of this new law is flawed.
I have gone under the assumption that this law gave the holder the right, as an extension to his home, to carry concealed in his vehicle without reguard to travel or no travel.
Am I reading your post correctly or is this another law?
Blessings

[Questor]

Does this mean that if you have a cased handgun in your car and you're driving to the range that you can get busted?

[rockbilly]

As I understand the information provided by TSRA, the intent of the bill was to afford everyone the right to carry a firearm while traveling.  It seems some district attorneys, likely trying to make a name for himself, interpet to term "traveling" to mean you must be on a trip from city A, to city B.  Having the gun in your car while going out for a loaf of bread may get you a date with the judge if caught.  The individual that authored the law is working to close this loop hole, but until it is you should use caution when traveling with a fire arm.

I talked to my lawyer at the donut shop this morning, I told him about the statement on giving proof of insurance and driver's license only.  He said they would likely give you a ticket, but would not normally hold you for a search warrant.  He said you do not have to tell an officer where you have been and where you are going.  By law they can not search your car without just cause, so to avoid going to jail if you have the gun in your car, TSRA is providing this advice.

I know this is clear as mud, just another ewxample of those against the right to bear arms trying to take advantage of a loop hole.

[Questor]

rockbilly:

As far as I'm concerned, if I'm walking out to the mailbox and back, I'm travelling. Sounds like an imbecile DA to me.

[williamlayton]

DISCLAIMER!!!!
I am not an attorney and my thoughts are stricly my own.
That said, the original way of doing things around these parts included a travel disclaimer-Point A to point B, no stops, over two county lines, no side trip.
The actual way it was treated by the boys was quiet different as it was difficult to PROVE. I was under the impression that the new staute was not involved with travel. I thought it involved posession only and that posession was to be allowed in your vehicle.
This idea of travel has me confused and would seem to take us back to the definitions of the old.
Travel is moving from one place to another without benefit of determinations imposed by county lines, or at least that is my thought and the understanding I have of this new code.
Blessings
Well now, after a little further reading, I find that I am wrong, very wrong.
Travel is still an imposition of the law, along with the same old exceptions. I am totally confused why a new law was passed as it carries with it the limitations of the old.
Blessings

[oldandslow]

You'all come on over to New Mexico, we are handgun friendly over here. Seriously, I thought the new law might change things but after reading it I decided you are still at the mercy of the officer who happens to stop you. I have to travel to TX frequently but I'll go unarmed. Not worth the hassel you could get into.

[rockbilly]

oldandslow.  If you have NM concealed carry license you are safe.  The folks this applies to is those that do not have the CCL

After talking to some of the local LEOs, I can better understand the reason som of the DAs are looking for loop holes.  A gangbanger has the same freedom under the current law that you have.  According to a couple of the local cops, they would not bother most people, but those that look like they may be gangbangers may get a little more attention.

Get your gun and come on over to Texas............. :wink:

[oldandslow]

rockbilly, no CCL. That's why I don't carry a handgun to TX. I would fit the definition of traveling and will never be mistaken for a gangbanger but don't want to take a chance on that one horse's behind cop. In NM your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and you can carry a handgun anywhere in it (glovebox, under or on the seat, on the dash, etc.). I checked with the state police last week to be sure nothing had changed. A word of caution(from a deputy sheriff), if you are stopped and hassel the officer he can confiscate your firearm. The downside is that you never get it back so it is best to be polite.

[rockbilly]

oldandslow.  We lived in Clovis for almost four years back in the sixties.  I know you could strap on a pistol and walk down main strteet and no one would say a word, as long as it wasn't concealed you were OK.  

We use to deer and elk hunt near Mayhill, Weed area.  I remember going into the (at that time only one) bar in Mayhill, taking my gun and holster and checking it with the bartender,  You got it back when you left provided you didn't have too much to drink.  Several times I had to go back the next day to recover my old model 29.

I really think most small town cops here and Texas are reasonable and wqould not hasel you for having a gun.  It is the big cities, Austin, Dallas and Huston that worry me most.  Even in Fort Worth the cops seem to accept the fact that people are carrying a gun in their car with less concern that the others I mentioned.  

My concern, there are too many crazies out there today not to have one.  When the singing is over, I had rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. :wink:

[oldandslow]

rockbilly, I'll have to check but I think(?) you can't carry one on your hip in the city limits now and you can't take one into a bar. I believe you can still carry openly anywhere else except on someone's personal property that doesn't want you to. The owner of one of the gunshops in Hobbs carries in his store. There was a really nasty double murder in a jewelry store a couple of doors from him several years ago. He says it won't happen to him.
I used to hunt on Lick ridge down south of Mayhill. Deer hunting is a little different now. You have to apply for a permit and draw out just like for elk now. Guess I'll stick to bird hunting. We had quail everywhere last year and looks like it will be good again this year.

[williamlayton]

If this is any help I will repeat the situation the boys have taken over the years.
I carried for 40 years the same way the law was set up. Most of the boys figgered that most folks had a weapon in the glove compartment and never bothered a search unless there was a need or concern.
I almost did not get a Lic. as I did not really see the need and did not want to let  the boys know.
Now, I do notthink I would have ever been taken as a gangbanger though I have been stopped by our finest many times, and never ask of or requested to be allowed to be searched.
Matter of fact I would have let them search and told them of the weapon if they had asked.
Course most of this was in the old days and tha boys were under different circumstances then. Nowadays I would think it to be equally difficult for the DA to present a reasonable case if you have your act together.
It seems to me that it would be dang difficult for them to prove that I was not gong to where I said I was going if I stuck to my story.
Blessings

[rockbilly]

I also carryed for 40+ years with no problen in any of the southern states, If stopped for a traffic offence, I would always have my license and proof of inssurance ready when they walked up to the car, I would tell them "for your safety, and mine, I have a pistol in the car."  I was was only asked to show it one time, and that got me free room and board for the night.  Course that was in Illinois, but I smarted off to the cop.

I was traveling from England AFB, LA (Alexandria) to Chanute AFB, IL for school.  At the time I was shooting on the base pistol team, and had approval to take my guns with me to school so I could continue to practice while there. I was active duty military, traveling on offical military orders which listed the guns by make, model and serial number.  During the stop the trooper searched my car, when I opened the trunk there for the whole world to see was a pistol box and about 1000 rounds of ammo.  He asked what was in the box, I spouted off, It is an instant hold up kit.  He said open it, I did, and in less than a heart beat I was cuffed and on my way to the slammer.  I went before a state judge about 9 AM the next day, when I told my story he asked to see my orders, I shoped them and he turned on the trooper and chewed him out.  The state paid for towing and storing my car over night.  As soon as I got it back I showed them folks tail lights as I left that town. Yes, Edwardsville, Il is a great little town.......... :roll:

  Moral of this story, keep your mouth shut if stopped and hope for the best.