Author Topic: Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's  (Read 1487 times)

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Offline 1911crazy

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« on: October 24, 2005, 10:38:09 AM »
I have been browsing the used 45acp's and i'm seeing the frame rail rub marks on the front of the cutout on the slides.  Is this the norm on some 45's?  Or is it that they were hammered with no lube on the rails?
I have been thinking of picking one up for a carry gun because their priced cheap and they wouldn't be a real collectable.

Offline Mikey

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2005, 04:32:23 PM »
D MAN - seems to be the norm with some I've had and have now.  Doesn't seem to affect them.  Maybe they just aren't 'shot in' yet (lol).  Mikey.

Offline williamlayton

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2005, 01:09:14 AM »
I have read, from a number of sources, that the originals were of looser tolerances than the newer. I have heard opinions that advocated looser tolerances for reliability over closer tolerances.
This does not mean that a gun that rattles is more reliable or is safe.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mikey

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2005, 02:43:57 AM »
Minor rattling between the frame and slide indicate the tolerances necessary for a reliable 1911.  Those pistols were designed for dirty battlefield action and that's where the tolerances come in.  I feel uncomfortable with a 1911 if the slide doesn't rattle a bit, but that's probably just because they match the rattles twixt my ears (lol).  Mikey.

Offline Iowegan

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2005, 06:51:06 AM »
Non-gunsmiths judge the quality of 1911s by how tight the slide fits the frame. Probably because they don't know much about how 1911s really function and the slide-to-frame fit could be checked easily without disassembling the gun. Over the years, this practice seemed to become a standard, though a very false standard. Even high-end 1911 manufactures began to make tight fitting slide-to-frame fits to satisfy unknowledgable buyers.

In reality, the slide, barrel, bushing, and of course the sights operate as a single unit, all locked together. The frame is nothing more than a platform to mount the slide. As such, the real accuracy issues are how well the barrel fits the lock lugs, the barrel's hood fits the breach face, and how tight the bushing fits the slide and barrel. When these parts fit snug, you will have an accurate gun.

A good example: I have a Les Baer that is very tight in all respects. It is an excellent shooter however, all it takes is a little powder crud and it starts to malfunction. I've found it has to be field stripped every 50 rounds to clean the rails and lugs. The measured vertical and horizontal play in the slide-to-frame fit is .002". My old Series 70 Colt has seen a gazillion rounds run through it. It has .020" horizontal side play and .012" vertical play in the slide-to-frame fit. It rattles like a BB in a freight car. The barrel fits the slide tight and it has a collet type bushing that also fits tight. That old Colt will shoot just as good as the Les Baer for accuracy and it never malfunctions, even after 250 rounds have been fired without cleaning.

Another characteristic unknowledgable people judge 1911s by is trigger pull. It is so easy to smooth and lighten a 1911 trigger that it's not an issue when buying a gun. If you don't have the talent to do it yourself, a compentent gunsmith can do it in a few minutes.

Another example: Last year I spotted a Randall A-231 1911 at a gun show. I asked the dealer what he wanted for it. He told me nobody had ever heard of this off-brand and besides the slide was a little loose and it had a horrible trigger pull. I took a look and found it to be in "like new" condition with the box and papers. He said he was trying to get $400 out of it. I didn't haggle a bit and smoked the cash on him. After I got the gun home, I went through it and cleaned it up. A little buffing and spring work and the trigger was a crisp 3.5 lbs. The Randall was a tack driver. I sold it a few months later for $1500.

The beauty of 1911s, aftermarket support is the best of any gun available. If you just want a shooter grade gun, don't be afraid to buy a used one. Worst case, you might have to replace a barrel and bushing to get really good accuracy. Later you can customize it with all sorts of stuff including grips, sights, beavertail grip safety, extended slide lock, thumb safety, trigger, mag release, and a host of other things.
GLB

Offline 1911crazy

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 04:14:11 AM »
I just looked at a well used, ridden hard, put away wet, 1911 in 45acp.  It was refinished/reblued.  On it were wear marks that were the worst I have ever seen on the slide were the recoil spring housing goes into the frame.  The slide is very loose.  At what point is the 1911 wornout?
Now is this wear and seeing these marks the norm on a 45acp?  Or do some guns do have it and some don't?  My colts and springfield armory 1911a1's/1911's in the past never did this slide mark.

I'm just looking for a carry beater 45acp not the most accurate just for up close and personal work if the bad guys come my way. Its just my luck every gun i pick turns out to be too nice to carry because their collectable. Its hard when you collect too to find the right non collectable to carry.  I hate to carry anything thats valuable because i heard if you use it in self defence the cops take it away and you have to get a lawyer to get it back because it was used in a crime. So i want to carry the cheapest beater i can find something thats replaceable makes sense to me. I like the ruger 357mg snubbie but i prefer the 45acp its just the auto and 8rds over 6.  I find it very hard to find the perfect carry gun right now.  

Owning guns for over 35 years I find all my older stuff is a collectable now too and some are worth way more than what I paid for them too.  So whats one to do retire them or still use them?  They are all in new condition with no signs of any wear at all.

Offline Savage

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 04:53:16 AM »
All my guns are shooters. To me, that's what makes them worthwhile to own. I had some collectables handed down thru the family. I recently passed them on to my son, who enjoys them. In my part of the world, a legally owned gun used in a justified shooting is returned to the owner after review and the absence of charges filed.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Savage

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Loose Frames/slides on used 1911/1911a1's
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 04:59:16 AM »
D Man,
You might want to look at a RRA. They go for under $400 in my area. They seem to be of "ok" quality.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,