Author Topic: 22 LR urban coyote load (Read 2327 times)

rickt300 · « **on:** May 08, 2005, 05:45:59 AM »

Until I order and recieve my H&R Ultra in 22 Magnum I am going to have to get by with the 22 LR rifle I have now. I am being raided nightly by coyotes. They are normally around 50-70 yards out and freeze when the light hits em till they hear me shoot which until recently has been with a 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 shot. For now I decided to use my old 22 and went looking for some loads with low ricochet potential that would still take a coyote with a solid chest shot. I wanted to try CCI quick shock loads but couldn't find any. I came up with CCI Stingers and Winchester HV hollow points. I had an old box of Stingers which gave vertical stringing at 25 yards of 1 1/2 inches. The new box gives groups of 1/2 inch and the Winchester HP chops out a 3/8 inch hole. I can easily make solid shoulder hits out to 75 yards and my question is will the stingers exit? How about the Winchester HP's?

Keith L · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2005, 12:12:39 PM »

In my opinion yotes are centerfire territory. Your .22LR and even a mag are marginal. The 17HMR is also to small. At 70 yards even with a perfect shot you risk wounding the animal and letting it get away. I understand your urban situation and need to make sure that you know your background and shoot in the safest possible direction.

Good luck!

moontroll · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2005, 01:59:20 PM »

CCI Velocitors,I'v heard of people using them for yotes.

rickt300 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2005, 03:25:54 PM »

I have killed some coyotes with 22 rimfire rounds, the last was shot with my 22 pistol, a Smith and Wesson 422 (4 inch barrel) at 30 yards. The coyote facing me was hit just in front of the left shoulder and the Winchester "Expert" hollow point bullet exited at the rear of the rib cage leaving a hole of around 1/2 inch. Coyote ran 15 feet in a circle ad was done. It was a young one that weighed maybe 20 pounds. I just wanted to know if the Stinger rounds would stay in the coyote. I have not found coyotes to be iron clad as some imply. The nearest house is 500 yards away and I won't shoot if the bullet won't solidly hit the chest area of the coyote.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2005, 03:37:25 PM »

Rick, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 17hmr on a yote within 100yds, too many are killing them too often to believe that it won't work. So what if it runs 50yds, dead is dead. And you dont need to worry about ricochets, they just don't happen with the hmr using the Vmax or TNT HP. If I had the option of a centerfire, 22 hornet of better would be my choice, but under your conditions, the 17hmr rules. I would recommend behind the shoulder shots though, thru the lungs without hitting the shoulder bones is best with these light constructed bullets.

Be sure to read all 4 pages.....
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93793

Keith L · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2005, 06:08:37 AM »

I keep forgetting Northern yotes are bigger than the western and southern ones. When I lived in California Cyotes were about the size of foxes around here.

Even so especially in urban areas consider the impact a wounded predator could have, if approacned by children or by a misguided adult. I would want to ground it good.

jh45gun · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2005, 09:43:11 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Rick, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 17hmr on a yote within 100yds, too many are killing them too often to believe that it won't work. So what if it runs 50yds, dead is dead. And you dont need to worry about ricochets, they just don't happen with the hmr using the Vmax or TNT HP. If I had the option of a centerfire, 22 hornet of better would be my choice, but under your conditions, the 17hmr rules. I would recommend behind the shoulder shots though, thru the lungs without hitting the shoulder bones is best with these light constructed bullets.

Be sure to read all 4 pages.....
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93793

Not to be disrespectfull Quicktodo but I feel my 22 mag is marginal at 100 yards with a well placed shot and a centerfire would be better of course. I also feel the rimfire 17's are good for prarrie dog size critters and smaller. Too dogone many folks get a new gun and feel it is good for every thing well that is not so in the rimfire 17's case. Yea you hear a lot of guys saying they killed yotes on the net but how many do you hear say they wounded a bunch/ NONE as they do not want to get the flack from it from some one like me. For the record I do not have one and have no desire to have one my 22lr and 22 mag satisfy all my rimfire needs. Anything else a centerfire will take care of it. Yea I would shoot a yote with my 22 mag with a good shot offered and under 75 yards with 50 yards even better yet. This is not David and Golieth here in the real world the 17's are too small to kill reliably with any type of good average on larger critters. Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2005, 10:04:05 AM »

Yup, I agree partially, but a centerfire in Rick's location is not an option and I stated that.

Quote

If I had the option of a centerfire, 22 hornet of better would be my choice, but under your conditions, the 17hmr rules.

But I also believe that the 17hmr is not given its due, its inherent accuracy over most 22mags is well known. Given the rimfire choices, the 17hmr wins hands down as far as I'm concerned. From what I've read and my experience with the 22mag, the best accuracy is achieved with the 33gr Vmax loads which have little difference in energy than the 17hmr Vmax and TNT Hp and wouldn't present a ricochet potential like the lead bullets offered in the 22mag that do have more energy.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52128096&an=0&page=0#52128096

http://www.remington.com/ammo/rimfire/22wmammo.htm#ballistics

Index No. Velocity (fps) Energy (ft-lb) Trajectory (in)
.............. Muz. 50 100 Muz. 50 100 50 100 150
PR17HM1 2550 2212 1901 245 185 136 0.1 0.0 -2.6
PR22M1...2000 1730 1495 293 219 164 0.6 0.0 -4.5

S.S. · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2005, 10:20:32 AM »

60 grain Aguila SSS.
I have found these rounds to be deadly
inside of about 80 yards. They will require
that the rifle be sighted in specifically for them
though.

rickt300 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2005, 12:58:52 PM »

Popped one last night with the stinger. Hit her just under the chin looking at me. No exit and she dropped so I had to go get her and put her in a dog food bag and then the dumpster. Still looking for some Quick shocks though.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:00:52 PM »

Great, you made a good yote out of it!!! :eek:

jh45gun · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:22:39 PM »

Rick the idea that the 22 mag is not accurate is false. This was started when the 22 mag first came out and rifles were not really chambered for it. I have a Henry Lever that at 50 yards will shoot UNDER ONE HALF INCH GROUPS. One group had 4 shots into one 30 cal size ragged hole. So for the 50 to 75 yard range I qwoted that is plenty accurate. The arguement is going to keep going on and I do not care what stats ( Balistics) as they are only a guide while the chart shows the 17 below the 22 mag which makes sense to me by the way the 22 mags heavier bullet is bound to penitrate more and expell more energy on the animal. THe 22 mag kills large for its size so does the 22 Lr but it depends on the animal being shot too. All I know is that most folks in the gun business that I have read articles from do not think the 17 rimfires are good yote medicine. I do not agree with a lot of gun writers but on this I have to agree as it makes good common sense. I read a article once of a eskimo who used a 17 centerfire for everything as it did little damage to pelts. including POLAR BEAR~ :shock: Needless to say the Bear dang near ate him and he had to rely on a fellow hunter to kill the bear with a other gun. Just goes to show you that folks will use what they have but that does not make it a good choice.

jh45gun · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:41:46 PM »

The SSS round does not shoot that well in most rifles to be considered. Even if you had a gun that shot it ok it drops so fast and so dramatically so that shooting one at any amimal if you did not have the range right would not be a good thing. I shot some at 25 yards and it dropped 4 inches compared to the reg ammo I was shooting though it grouped good at 25. At 50 it dropped enough that you would miss the amimal or hit it real low unless you really used Kentucky windage and at 50 the groups opened up quite a bit.

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2005, 02:07:59 AM »

Quote

Rick the idea that the 22 mag is not accurate is false.

Your loyalty to the .22 mag is quite apparent. I also have three .22 mags that are acceptable at 50 yards, but don't hold a candle to the 17 HMR at further distances. I have three of them as well that regularly group dime size groups at 100 yards, and one will do the same at 200 yards in still wind conditions. By 100 yards the .22 mags spread out to at least 2 inches, less with jacketed bullets, but still over an inch.

All that said I still feel that I would hesitate to hunt yotes with a rimfire. I know that a .22 can do it but I also have seen to many "sure shots" with .22s lead to wounded game. At night you will have a heck of a time finding them if you don't plant them well. I am not sure what is being attacked nightly by yotes, but if I didn't have centerfire guns to use I would think of trapping or some other means for making sure that I would get a fatal shot. 50-70 yards is a good distance for a .22.

Good luck,

jh45gun · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2005, 05:22:50 AM »

Quote from: Keith L

Quote
Rick the idea that the 22 mag is not accurate is false.

Your loyalty to the .22 mag is quite apparent. I also have three .22 mags that are acceptable at 50 yards, but don't hold a candle to the 17 HMR at further distances. I have three of them as well that regularly group dime size groups at 100 yards, and one will do the same at 200 yards in still wind conditions. By 100 yards the .22 mags spread out to at least 2 inches, less with jacketed bullets, but still over an inch.

All that said I still feel that I would hesitate to hunt yotes with a rimfire. I know that a .22 can do it but I also have seen to many "sure shots" with .22s lead to wounded game. At night you will have a heck of a time finding them if you don't plant them well. I am not sure what is being attacked nightly by yotes, but if I didn't have centerfire guns to use I would think of trapping or some other means for making sure that I would get a fatal shot. 50-70 yards is a good distance for a .22.

Good luck,

Yea Keith, I like the cartridge and think it is acts big for its size. Still I think any rim fire gun is for the most part under a 100 yard gun for most shooters. This includes the 22 Mag. Expecially for coyotes ect to do the job well. Like I stated I think 50 to 75 yards would be optimum for most shooters. I still say the 17 is a small animal gun period. Yea I suppose some have killed larger critters with it but I look at it as Bell Killed Elephants with a 7x57 too but for most hunters if they tried that they would be Elephant toe jam. Jim

rickt300 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 10, 2005, 02:15:06 PM »

I just tested the CCI Velocitor and the Aguilla Super Max with a 30 grain hollow point. Both loads were one hole groupers at 25 yards. The Aguilla bullet expanded most and penetrated least, the 40 grain Velocitor seemed to tumble after expanding some in my sand box. The Aguilla gets next shot.

jh45gun · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2005, 03:17:51 PM »

How much Penetration on the Aquila? If if does not penetrate enough to get into the vitals its not going to do the job?

S.S. · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2005, 10:10:36 AM »

I have a Marlin/Glenfield model 10
now sighted 1 inch high at 50 yards with the
Aguila SSS rounds it hits dead on at 80 yards.
I have never had one keyhole and I can easily
group all my rounds on a nickel sized target.
I have used the Quick shock rounds also,
and they do exactly what they are supposed to.
The bullet breaks into 3 pieces and
has about 9-12 inches of penetration.
These things will remove the head from a squirrel.
They are quite loud though for a .22

jh45gun · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2005, 01:19:04 PM »

Quote from: S.Sumner

I have a Marlin/Glenfield model 10
now sighted 1 inch high at 50 yards with the
Aguila SSS rounds it hits dead on at 80 yards.
I have never had one keyhole and I can easily
group all my rounds on a nickel sized target.
I have used the Quick shock rounds also,
and they do exactly what they are supposed to.
The bullet breaks into 3 pieces and
has about 9-12 inches of penetration.
These things will remove the head from a squirrel.
They are quite loud though for a .22

You have a gun that will evidently tolerate this ammo then. Not all guns will do it. That is well documented on some of the other 22 sites. Good for you that your gun likes it not all do. Like I said Mine shot great at 25 with the Romanain trainer but it did drop at 50 about 4 to 5 inches. If yours drops only a inch with the extra 30 yards with this ammo that is truly amaizing. I sure would keep the gun and stock up on the ammo incase they ever quit making it. Jim

rickt300 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2005, 02:32:26 PM »

I am pretty sure with a rib cage shot the Aguilla HP will penetrate well enough for a coyote. 22 rimfires penetrate pretty good and the testing is soon to come on the varmint. Actually if the sob's would run across the road and into the brush I wouldn't have to bag it and put it in the dumpster.

jh45gun · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2005, 05:16:15 PM »

Quote from: rickt300

I am pretty sure with a rib cage shot the Aguilla HP will penetrate well enough for a coyote. 22 rimfires penetrate pretty good and the testing is soon to come on the varmint. Actually if the sob's would run across the road and into the brush I wouldn't have to bag it and put it in the dumpster.

Well if that is a concern put bait on the top of the dumpster with a way for then to get to it then just shoot them and let them drop into the dumpster!

Just kidding! :roll:

S.S. · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2005, 08:26:32 AM »

My Model 10 has a shortened barrel and I think
that has something to do with how well
it shoots them. The barrel is just over 19 inches.
As I understand it, the SSS has a relatively fast
burning powder and I think that is why they
shoot better out of a short barrel.
I think in a long barrel the peak pressure is reached
somewhere to far back in the barrel and the long
bullet starts to actually slow itself down in the barrel
due to resistance. Try them in your shortest barrel
rifle and see if the performance improves.

Old Griz · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2005, 08:23:12 PM »

:cb2: I have to agree with jh45gun. I have fired the Aguilla 60-gr. SSS out of my 77/22 Varmint and my S&W 617, and in both cases, it grouped well at 25 yards, but it really drops like a rock. It's a .22 long (not LR) with a long chunk of lead that extends it out to the same length as a LR. I have a mil-dot scope on my 77/22 and it really comes in handy. With different brands and velocities of .22 ammo, you simply use one of the dots instead of your crosshairs depending on where your ammo is hitting. Saves from having to re-zero your scope. With that SSS stuff, however, you can run out of dots real fast!

T.J. McSuds · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2005, 02:17:58 AM »

The 17HMR now has a 20gr bullet available that was desiged for larger animals.

Robert · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2005, 05:58:09 AM »

I agree with jh45gun about the SSS ammo. Not many rifles handle it well, but surprisingly....I also have an old Marlin-glenfield like s.summer does and it likes them,however........in my opinion....they are a novelty at best, but fun to play with. If I want something 'neighbor freindly' but still has some power, I use the Remington Subsonic ammo in the green boxes. It dosent have the 'crack' like high velocity ammo, but still arrives with some 'authority'.....and within 50 yrds it is still close enough to the same zero as standard ammo.
For really quiet stuff, I like the CB Longs. Regular CB's ar also quiet and they are easier to find than the CB Longs, but I have compared the two and the CB shorts are really crappy for accuracy. These are good for squirrels and rodents and for popping pests in the butt to get them away from the chickens, however....I am NOT sugesting that they will kill a yote. They ARE a lot of fun though, and Aquila also makes something similar.

Chum_Bucket · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2005, 07:31:47 AM »

Hi Guys,

I think the stingers or velocitors would work good in lr. The magnum will be much better at killing them but you will have to be more careful. I have a custom 10/22 magnum. Bull barrel, customized 10/22 T stock, bedded and reworked trigger. It is super accurate. I shot a 230-4x at 50 yards and 247-12x at 25 on the USBR target with that rifle. I also have a 77/22 magnum that shoots plenty good enough to take yotes at 100 yards. You are really going to enjoy that magnum for hunting. I have heard a lot of good things about the NEF rifles. That Ultra is nice looking. Try the 22 WMR Remington Premier 33 grain V-max. Super accurate and very explosive. Try shooting a water filled milk jug at 100 yards. You wont have any doubts about it after that.

Graybeard · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2005, 05:34:32 PM »

Chum bucket, you have apparently requested a new password. BUT your e-mail address is invalid so the password e-mail bounced. I suspect that means you are now in limbo and have no way to log in.

You will need to contact me via e-mail to get a new password now. I will require a valid new e-mail account for record in order to do this. I suggest you contact me soon. If I get many more bounced e-mails to you it will be too late then.

Chum_Bucket · « **Reply #27 on:** October 31, 2005, 12:52:12 AM »

Yeah I had a heck of a time retrieving my password. It is all fixed now. My hotmail account was in limbo. By the way Hello :eek: